EICR some help please

[zenonek]

Hi

Im newto this forum and hello to everybody.

Im experienced electrician with 15 years of experience in all kind of domestic premised. Some commertial, but not many..
Niceic Domestic installer for 15 years.

I dont do many Eicr's, s so have troubles coding things.

I realky trying to work to high standards, hence problems with judging others installations.

A friend asked me to do periodic af a building, with 25 studio flats, very small and easy, 4-5 mcbs.
Generally done ok, but some items bugger me a tillle as i wouldnt do them that way.

Installation is 10 years old, last Eicr done 5 years ago by same Niceic addroved contractor who build it 10 years ago.

On last Eicr no codes, bo recommendations....

But i found some items that needs attention.

• Every single consumer unit have big cable entry hole behind, you can see cavity behing, cons units very dusty inside cause of that, im guesing wind blows , needs to be sealed..... do i code something like this?
• subfeed 10mm 3 core swa coble to every cons unit not terminated right. Basicaly armour cut and wraped with insulation tape... on other side is propertly glanded.... code it??
• consumer units ate 2 rcd split boards, plastic, positioned right by the entry doors, inside every flat, i would recommend to replace them for metal, but .... do i code it as c3?

-each flat have one EM light, no test switch and circuit connected to same Mcb as genetal lighting, meaning 2 x 1.0mm cables into one mcb... code it?
- staircase emergency lights have no test switches...
-Every kitchenette appliance is integrated and have isolator above worktop except Microwaves, they are also integrated on a plug behind... code?
-kitchenettes are very small, hence all of the sockets and appliances isolators above worktops are either above sinks, or within 300 from induction hobs or sinks... code?

And finally landlors supply...

• all external lights permanently on, no sensor or switch, just an mcb.. there used to be a switch but blanked off... code?
• there is 3 phase consumer unit with 40a mcb's to supply each flat, main switch on that board is rated 200a, same as meter, is rated 200a, but main fuses are 100a, but cores from the street looks like 35mm or even bigger. Meter tails installed are 25mm.

I would do the tails to match 200a board capacity, right? ...code???

• meter tails terminated to 200a main switch, actualy one, l3 looks black/dirty, not sure its burn, or just dirty, same behind the switch, on enclosure, it may be dirty, but couldnt confirm is, as whole building deened to be switched off, for which i had no permit.. would you code it?
• 3 ph board not closing propertly, i could see that is resting mostly on msbs, as they were not propertly installed.. is that a code??
• in same board there is a cover that covers l1 l2 l3 terminals after main switch, and is broken, cracked, attachet to main switch with insulation take.... is that a code?

Any help from experienced tester will be appreciated...

Thank you in advance..

 

[davesparks]

im not trying to argue with you, and im not asking it it is ok for me to do it, i just do it, and you dont have to agree with it.
and why would someone install 300a fuse if ON THE BOARD SAYS 200A Max.
But HEJ, even if they do im covered, as my TAILS and MS is 200A rated max! (load also matters)

And there is a difference between 20a and 100a in terms of harm it can cause, bad example.

The same reason that they would replace a 100A fuse with anything bigger than 100A, a lack of knowledge or common sense.

Yes there is a difference between 20A and 100A, I am well aware of that, but the point is the same, the conductors need only be rated for the OCPD they are protected by not for the rating of whatever switch happens to be installed.

20A can cause a significant amount of harm, in terms of cable sizing, or more specifically incorrect cable sizing, then it can do exactly the same harm as 100A.

 

[zenonek]

The same reason that they would replace a 100A fuse with anything bigger than 100A, a lack of knowledge or common sense.

Yes there is a difference between 20A and 100A, I am well aware of that, but the point is the same, the conductors need only be rated for the OCPD they are protected by not for the rating of whatever switch happens to be installed.

20A can cause a significant amount of harm, in terms of cable sizing, or more specifically incorrect cable sizing, then it can do exactly the same harm as 100A.

according to esqcr and osg meter tails domestic should be at minimum 25mm2, why would that be if 60a fuse installed...maybe because fuse can easy be replaced with 100A...
Im not saying that you are wrong, im just saying I would match tails to MS, unless MS rated lower that fuse. i dont think im wrong either.

 

[123]

according to esqcr and osg meter tails domestic should be at minimum 25mm2, why would that be if 60a fuse installed...maybe because fuse can easy be replaced with 100A...
Im not saying that you are wrong, im just saying I would match tails to MS, unless MS rated lower that fuse. i dont think im wrong either.

If Main Switch is rated lower than the fuse, then you are quite likely to have problems. Main Switch should be rated equal to or higher than the fuse, and the tails should be sized to suit the fuse.

 

[zenonek]

Yes. Didnt want to say that. I dont know why i said that.. makes no sense
[automerge]1594076220[/automerge]
I had diferent scenario in my head 100a fure, 25mm tails and ie 60a isolator with 60a fuse in it..
[automerge]1594076511[/automerge]
It was just an example

 

[davesparks]

according to esqcr and osg meter tails domestic should be at minimum 25mm2, why would that be if 60a fuse installed...maybe because fuse can easy be replaced with 100A...
Im not saying that you are wrong, im just saying I would match tails to MS, unless MS rated lower that fuse. i dont think im wrong either.

Can you post a direct quote from the ESQCR to support this?

The OSG is just a guide and is not regulation, BS7671 does not put any minimum size on meter tails.

You are wrong, conductors are not sized according to the rating of a switch they are connected to!

 

[richy3333]

@davesparks why the disagree For me when you're later criticising the op. I’m confuse?

 

[davesparks]

@davesparks why the disagree For me when you're later criticising the op. I’m confuse?

This is why:

More worrying that a DI is doing commercial work

I'm a DI but I do a lot of commercial and unusual/specialist work so I disagree with the suggestion that a DI shouldn't be doing commercial work.

 

[7029 dave]

This is why:



I'm a DI but I do a lot of commercial and unusual/specialist work so I disagree with the suggestion that a DI shouldn't be doing commercial work.

I know a few electricians that opted for DI that do majority commercial work, only reason to get around the notification scam in the domestic sector.
Its a cheaper option.

 

[radiohead]

That would be an incorrect statement, the NICEIC have not made an statement about his competence.
He has not paid the NICEIC the extra money to put their logo on EICR paperwork, this is not making any judgement about their competence.

However the questions in the OP do suggest a lack of knowledge to carry out EICRs, or even electrical work at all.

Fair point, clearly yours and other subsequent posts show many DI's are doing commercial work and are clearly competent to carry out EICR's, but use the DI route only as a cheaper means of enabling their domestic work to be notified.

 

[richy3333]

This is why:



I'm a DI but I do a lot of commercial and unusual/specialist work so I disagree with the suggestion that a DI shouldn't be doing commercial work.

ah, Ok. Being in Scotland we dont have DI's but I always thought the NICEIC didnt allow commercial/3 phase work under the DI scheme. Thats where my comment was aimed. Obviously wrong.

 

[davesparks]

ah, Ok. Being in Scotland we dont have DI's but I always thought the NICEIC didnt allow commercial/3 phase work under the DI scheme. Thats where my comment was aimed. Obviously wrong.

It's not up to the NICEIC to allow or disallow anything.
If you are registered with the domestic installer scheme then you are a member of their scheme for self certifying work for the purposes of part P, it does not in any way 'allow' you to do any particular type of work or not.

If you are registered with the DI scheme you can self certify and notify domestic work for the purpose of Part P and use the NIC DI logo on paperwork and domestic certificates.
If you are an approved contractor you can use the approved contractor logo on paperwork and certificates for all areas of work covered by that registration but it does not allow the notification of jobs for the purpose of part P without additionally being registered with the DI scheme (its free for approved contractors but still has to be done) .
You can be registered with either scheme, or both.

Or alternatively you can do electrical installation work without being a member of the NICEIC at all.

 

[richy3333]

One I had last year was a small Chinese takeaway.....the amount of faults I picked up was ridiculous.....he paid me anyways for the report and then just went with another spark who basically found nothing wrong......cheaper than getting me to repair all faults.....crazy times man ?

It's not up to the NICEIC to allow or disallow anything.
If you are registered with the domestic installer scheme then you are a member of their scheme for self certifying work for the purposes of part P, it does not in any way 'allow' you to do any particular type of work or not.

If you are registered with the DI scheme you can self certify and notify domestic work for the purpose of Part P and use the NIC DI logo on paperwork and domestic certificates.
If you are an approved contractor you can use the approved contractor logo on paperwork and certificates for all areas of work covered by that registration but it does not allow the notification of jobs for the purpose of part P without additionally being registered with the DI scheme (its free for approved contractors but still has to be done) .
You can be registered with either scheme, or both.

Or alternatively you can do electrical installation work without being a member of the NICEIC at all.

Yeah, ok. I’ll duck out now. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. My bad.

 

[Baddegg]

Yeah, ok. I’ll duck out now. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. My bad.

Lost me @richy3333 sorry mate ?