What 'breach' of Part P? As far as i'm aware that's just a building regulation that states the HOMEOWNER has to inform Building Control of electrical work. That's why people get away with doing it, because it's not an actual law governing what an ELECTRICIAN must and mustn't do.
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You don't think this stops an influx of career changers doing short domestic courses?
Those doing it for beer money will continue to do so and always will. This stops honest people (most of them) from taking on short courses to get into the industry.
Combine that with the planned changes for competent person schemes demanding experience not just 2365 and you really don't think this changes anything at all?
A***Skills and TS4U are, between them, doing £6.7m of 'sales' per year. If you count that as everyone paying the full £9k it's 745 people per year not coming into the industry and that's just two providers.
When you consider that the vast majority of their sales are not the full £9k but sometimes just £2500-5k for the domestic routes that number is up to 3-4 times larger.
What percentage of those 745 people will pay that money knowing they will not be able to touch electric after? What proportion of them will say 'ah ---- it' and set up on their own anyway without paying the course fees?
If even 10% do, that's between 650ish to 2500 people per year not entering the profession just based on those two training centres.
Now what about the thousands on 2365 Diploma's up and down the country who aren't working for someone? If they are also banned from working without a portfolio/experience then they will have to get jobs, meaning they also won't leave en masse and set up alone.
I think this stops massive dilution of the industry.
It makes some work notifiable, but it also applies to ALL new work done that comes under building regulations.
In fact it's the only legally binding document that covers electrical work, though it mostly just says 'do it as BS7671 says', with the exception of things like socket heights, etc.
It's only real clause is that:
But breaching it is a criminal offence.
For whatever reason, the authorities almost never prosecute a breach of it though, and where electrical incompetence is involved they generally seem to go the EAWR route, perhaps because there are higher penalties (penalties for building regulations are fines only, though technically unlimited as to amount).
What SHOULD be happening is that LABC were funded and trained appropriately to monitor work in their area, and dish out enforcement notices to require crappy work to be corrected. Instead, building inspectors are generally being privatised, overworked, and as often as not barely visit a site any more in my experience, let alone monitor whether electrical work has been done properly. (Some areas are better than others)
Fun fact: The current Part P document on the Gov.uk site still says: "Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011"
An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...
Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics
And include Kevin the kitchen fitter and Benjamin the bathroom fitter in that....
If the change is purely to stop short courses happening, then they may well achieve that - but it will make little practical difference - it may even make things worse.
I have little to no faith in the ability of this Government (or any previous one tbf) to suitably legislate in a way that achieves what is needed. Too many landlords with hands directly on the wheel of power or the ear of those that do to achieve an outcome that helps the industry AND homeowners.
As a 'short courser' from the very start of Part P days, I'm happy to admit that they have many flaws - but then again I've seen enough dodgy work from 'fully qualified' tradesmen with all the certificates to know that it's more complicated than that...
Discuss Is this the end of 6 week wonders? New Domestic Gold Card Apprenticeship announced in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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I don't think it being illegal will make a great difference there are plenty of things out there that are but it doesn't stop people doing them!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!
Even gas works are still undertaken by those who are not qualified! The more honest of people will be turned away by it but there will always be those who really don't care as they make too much money from scamming people!
Got to love capitalism!
But how many people would undertake a £5k 6 week course knowing they wouldn't be allowed to touch electric after?
You don't think this stops an influx of career changers doing short domestic courses?
Those doing it for beer money will continue to do so and always will. This stops honest people (most of them) from taking on short courses to get into the industry.
Combine that with the planned changes for competent person schemes demanding experience not just 2365 and you really don't think this changes anything at all?
A***Skills and TS4U are, between them, doing £6.7m of 'sales' per year. If you count that as everyone paying the full £9k it's 745 people per year not coming into the industry and that's just two providers.
When you consider that the vast majority of their sales are not the full £9k but sometimes just £2500-5k for the domestic routes that number is up to 3-4 times larger.
What percentage of those 745 people will pay that money knowing they will not be able to touch electric after? What proportion of them will say 'ah ---- it' and set up on their own anyway without paying the course fees?
If even 10% do, that's between 650ish to 2500 people per year not entering the profession just based on those two training centres.
Now what about the thousands on 2365 Diploma's up and down the country who aren't working for someone? If they are also banned from working without a portfolio/experience then they will have to get jobs, meaning they also won't leave en masse and set up alone.
I think this stops massive dilution of the industry.
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What we all really want to know IS ...
Will it make you a QUALIFIED electrician
Will it make you a QUALIFIED electrician
- Reaction score
- 315
From my experience, everyone carrying out electrical work who shouldn't be hasn't even been on one of these 6 week courses you're talking about. They're just handymen who think they can do it but they couldn't be more wrong
- Reaction score
- 2,441
That's because of how poorly Part P was introduced and awareness pushed out by the authorities.
It makes some work notifiable, but it also applies to ALL new work done that comes under building regulations.
In fact it's the only legally binding document that covers electrical work, though it mostly just says 'do it as BS7671 says', with the exception of things like socket heights, etc.
It's only real clause is that:
"P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury"
But breaching it is a criminal offence.
For whatever reason, the authorities almost never prosecute a breach of it though, and where electrical incompetence is involved they generally seem to go the EAWR route, perhaps because there are higher penalties (penalties for building regulations are fines only, though technically unlimited as to amount).
What SHOULD be happening is that LABC were funded and trained appropriately to monitor work in their area, and dish out enforcement notices to require crappy work to be corrected. Instead, building inspectors are generally being privatised, overworked, and as often as not barely visit a site any more in my experience, let alone monitor whether electrical work has been done properly. (Some areas are better than others)
Fun fact: The current Part P document on the Gov.uk site still says: "Electrical installations should be designed and installed in accordance with BS 7671:2008 incorporating Amendment No 1:2011"
- Reaction score
- 8,204
THIS
An these very same people will have zero idea about this new courses and new accreditation.
They will carry on doing what they have always been doing.
The only way things will ever change is if you start throwing builders in jail who try to wire up their own work...
Inventing a new 'course' will make absolutely ZERO difference to the handyman , DIY dave and Bob the Builder world of electrics
- Reaction score
- 2,441
100%
And include Kevin the kitchen fitter and Benjamin the bathroom fitter in that....
- Reaction score
- 2,441
But the purpose of this change is presumably to raise the standards of domestic work? That's the issue with this change.
If the change is purely to stop short courses happening, then they may well achieve that - but it will make little practical difference - it may even make things worse.
I have little to no faith in the ability of this Government (or any previous one tbf) to suitably legislate in a way that achieves what is needed. Too many landlords with hands directly on the wheel of power or the ear of those that do to achieve an outcome that helps the industry AND homeowners.
As a 'short courser' from the very start of Part P days, I'm happy to admit that they have many flaws - but then again I've seen enough dodgy work from 'fully qualified' tradesmen with all the certificates to know that it's more complicated than that...
Reply to Is this the end of 6 week wonders? New Domestic Gold Card Apprenticeship announced in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
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