New socket on ring main - replace consumer unit?

[westward10]

Doing a straight swap socket front for socket front, would this not just be classed as Maintenance, Just playing Devils Advocate.

What if I replace a damaged like for like dist board.

 

[andyb]

That's not playing devil's advocate, that's playing the devil himself.

 

[sparksburnout]

You would provide a MWC for replacing a like for like socket????

 

[westward10]

You would provide a MWC for replacing a like for like socket????

Yes.

 

[sparksburnout]

Yes.

Including ALL the tests on it? properly? And how much would you charge the customer for this? Amazing.

 

[westward10]

Including ALL the tests on it? properly? And how much would you charge the customer for this? Amazing.

Yep, most of the remedials/repairs we do are from EICRs so we allow for retesting.

 

[GMES]

Westy can you try and keep your replies a bit shorter please mate

 

[westward10]

Westy can you try and keep your replies a bit shorter please mate

Better

 

[sparksburnout]

Yep, most of the remedials/repairs we do are from EICRs so we allow for retesting.

I am quite amazed. I can't imagine you are employed for a living. Why would you think it is necessary to provide a MWC for a simple socket replacement? This is something that a householder is allowed to do?

 

[Doomed]

Completely off topic, but we switched a like for like light fitting in a shop, and the management company now want a minor works - ffs the job took 20 minutes, the test would take about 3 hours after I had disconnected the other light fittings for the insulation test, done all the tests and then reconnected them (which would then mean I potentially could of introduced more faults / loose connections).
Sometimes the insistence of a minor works is a bit silly - fair enough if you are altering the circuit (as they are designed for) but just for a like for like replacement? What rot!

 

[andyb]

Including ALL the tests on it? properly? And how much would you charge the customer for this? Amazing.

What tests? I only put whats relevent. Zs, ocpd, rcd test if present, whatever. I don't do IR or R1+R2. It takes a couple of minutes to change a socket, I charge for an hour, plenty of time to fill out a MWC.

 

[Doomed]

The minor works I use have boxes for insulation tests and R1+R2, so my logic is that if I don't fill out the cert as it is designed to be filled out there is no point in doing the cert at all.

 

[sparksburnout]

Completely off topic, but we switched a like for like light fitting in a shop, and the management company now want a minor works - ffs the job took 20 minutes, the test would take about 3 hours after I had disconnected the other light fittings for the insulation test, done all the tests and then reconnected them (which would then mean I potentially could of introduced more faults / loose connections).
Sometimes the insistence of a minor works is a bit silly - fair enough if you are altering the circuit (as they are designed for) but just for a like for like replacement? What rot!

I think hes just winding us up. maybe been on the magic mushrooms by the picture.

 

[sparksburnout]

The minor works I use have boxes for insulation tests and R1+R2, so my logic is that if I don't fill out the cert as it is designed to be filled out there is no point in doing the cert at all.

Absolutely. I have the same one as you, IR, R1+R2. Either do it right or don't bother, there is no need anyway!!

 

[Doomed]

I think hes just winding us up. maybe been on the magic mushrooms by the picture.

Even more off topic - HMS Hood and shrooms -what are YOU on boy?

 

[andyb]

Absolutely. I have the same one as you, IR, R1+R2. Either do it right or don't bother, there is no need anyway!!

They all have the same, I just put N/A.

 

[westward10]

Completely off topic, but we switched a like for like light fitting in a shop, and the management company now want a minor works - ffs the job took 20 minutes, the test would take about 3 hours after I had disconnected the other light fittings for the insulation test, done all the tests and then reconnected them (which would then mean I potentially could of introduced more faults / loose connections).
Sometimes the insistence of a minor works is a bit silly - fair enough if you are altering the circuit (as they are designed for) but just for a like for like replacement? What rot!

Why do you want to disconnect all the fittings, just do IR to earth.

 

[sparksburnout]

They all have the same, I just put N/A.

Do you have a standard pro-forma for socket/switch/FCU etc swaps, with "N/A" in all the boxes?
I am losing the will a bit here. If I gave most of my customers a MWC for changing a socket they would roll it up and throw it at me.

 

[sparksburnout]

What tests? I only put whats relevent. Zs, ocpd, rcd test if present, whatever. I don't do IR or R1+R2. It takes a couple of minutes to change a socket, I charge for an hour, plenty of time to fill out a MWC.

Just thinking about it, if you are changing a socket on an RFC, the only test worth really doing is a continuity test at the CU in case one of the conductors has snapped when you screwed it back on, but you don't do that?

 

[andyb]

Do you have a standard pro-forma for socket/switch/FCU etc swaps, with "N/A" in all the boxes?
I am losing the will a bit here. If I gave most of my customers a MWC for changing a socket they would roll it up and throw it at me.

Well I assume you do some tests, what do you do with the results?

 

[Doomed]

Why do you want to disconnect all the fittings, just do IR to earth.

Shhh - being pedantic 'cos that what it asks for on the minor works form

 

[Doomed]

Well I assume you do some tests, what do you do with the results?

Note the Zs (and RCD if applicable) results on the job sheet and file it for 7 years then shred it.

 

[andyb]

Note the Zs (and RCD if applicable) results on the job sheet and file it for 7 years then shred it.

Not a million miles away from what I do, only I note them on a MWC.

 

[sparksburnout]

Well I assume you do some tests, what do you do with the results?

OK i will be honest, some might not. If a customer rings me with a broken socket, switch stuck or face cracked, for example. I will swap it out, do a continuity test at the socket while de-energised, do a Zs when back up. Check CU damage/bonding/earth. Make appropriate suggestions if relevant, charge for the swap. No MWC. Job was to swap socket, that's all, local handyman could have done it, legally.

 

[hightower]

local handyman could have done it, legally.

And if a handy man was doing it he'd be required to complete a MWC if he was complying with BS 7671

 

[Wilko]

And if a handy man was doing it he'd be required to complete a MWC if he was complying with BS 7671

I read BYB part 2 where Minor Works are defined as "additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit". So to me, the like-for-like maintenance replacement of a cracked outlet in Sparks post #84 isn't a Minor Works. But I am always happy to learn

Edit : filling out a MWC can be done for this work, but I don't think it has to be (?) We are always required to to do "appropriate inspection and testing" of any work.

 

[sparksburnout]

And if a handy man was doing it he'd be required to complete a MWC if he was complying with BS 7671

Last time I gave a (admittedly elderly) customer a MWC for a minor job, they looked at me blankly, in a mild state of panic. "What do I have to do with this?" they said. "Oh just put it with all your other important household documents" I told them. "Is it an important document then?" he said, even more worried. What can you say? For a socket change?
If it wasn't printed both sides i suppose they could use it for the ASDA list. I think I will just carry on not complying personally.

 

[Hellmooth]

And if a handy man was doing it he'd be required to complete a MWC if he was complying with BS 7671

How are you not complying with BS7671 if you don't supply a minor works for changing a socket like for like?

 

[westward10]

I think it is a matter of personal preference, you could argue it is not required and visa versa. We always provide one as a record of works carried out with the only test not generally carried out being IR between line/neutral. I suppose in the future should something happen to someone using the socket, you have proof that you carried out the minimum of required tests. Without this you can only verbally insist it was okay at the time of replacement.

 

[Hellmooth]

Yes it is good practice for a company for records etc, it isn't required and when replacing one for myself or my mother I wouldn't be supplying a minor works, same for light switches and fittings.