RCD not tripping out on hot water circuit.

[Dishman]

Hi,

Long story, my gf had a solar panel with a 3kw immersion heater backup. No hot water, checked and heating element rotted away, solar panel rubbish just two black painted water vessels in a reflective box, great for water during the day, but as soon as it got cold at night water quickly got cold. I replaced the whole lot with a new electric water heater connected to the existing wiring. We were both convinced we were getting little electric shocks when having a shower. I tested with a plug in tester, but when I pressed the testers RCD trip button the RCD does not trip. It doesnt trip on anything in the bathroom. The test button trips out the RCD on all the other ring mains. I have connected the boiler by extension lead to a socket that tested ok and we recieve no shocks.

What would be the cause of the RCD not tripping, and how would I go about finding the problem.

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 9648]

You need proper test gear to check this out,if you havent got it or the knowledge to use it get an electrician in before those 'little electric shocks' become big fat fatal ones.

 

[telectrix]

time to get a qualified spark in before the coffins.

 

[Knobhead]

Don't shower together.

 

[Dishman]

Would love to find a good qualified spark in Gran Canaria, but they all seem to be muppets. Assuming the builder here had the rcd tripping out on this circuit and made it so it didn´t trip, how would he have done that? Is is possible? I don´t understand why the RCD would not trip.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Would love to find a good qualified spark in Gran Canaria, but they all seem to be muppets. Assuming the builder here had the rcd tripping out on this circuit and made it so it didn´t trip, how would he have done that? Is is possible? I don´t understand why the RCD would not trip.

A picture of the setup would help,otherwise could be any number of reasons....it could be bypassed. I would suggest again that your time would be better spent finding a non-muppet to check it out than on here. Long range diagnosis is tricky and electric shocks in a wet situation are not to be taken lightly.

 

[Knobhead]

Get the retired UK electrician back to sort it out.

We can recall past threads to see you're history.

 

[Engineer54]

Hi,

Long story, my gf had a solar panel with a 3kw immersion heater backup. No hot water, checked and heating element rotted away, solar panel rubbish just two black painted water vessels in a reflective box, great for water during the day, but as soon as it got cold at night water quickly got cold. I replaced the whole lot with a new electric water heater connected to the existing wiring. We were both convinced we were getting little electric shocks when having a shower. I tested with a plug in tester, but when I pressed the testers RCD trip button the RCD does not trip. It doesnt trip on anything in the bathroom. The test button trips out the RCD on all the other ring mains. I have connected the boiler by extension lead to a socket that tested ok and we recieve no shocks.

What would be the cause of the RCD not tripping, and how would I go about finding the problem.

Thanks

Are you seriously telling us you have done away with a solar water heating system in favour of an electric water heater, when all it needed was a new 3KW element?? You must be as mad as a March Hare!! Free hot water, (even on overcast days) and if your water tank is sufficiently insulated will still provide all the hot water you need at night too. On the odd occasions where the water is only warm, 20 to 30min's of immersion heater is more than enough to heat the water in the tank to a respectable temperature!!

There is absolutely no way on this earth i would ever do away with the solar water heating system on my house in Cyprus, in favour of an expensive to run electric water heater!! Why do you suppose that every house/flat comes with a solar water heating system (well they do here in Cyprus, and i bet they do in Gran Canaria too) if they don't work??

 

[Dishman]

Engineer54, this was a bizzare and bog standard solar unit. It was a fiberglass case with two black metal tubes which held the water with reflective material around them and a glass lid. The water would heat well in the day, but the heat was lost quickly at night (the water does not go off to a separate insulated tank, it stays in the black metal tubes). The unit was made in Greece (no wonder they are in such a mess) and no spare parts are obtainable. Even if they were, there would be no point fitting a new immersion heater as the heater would be almost constantly on during a cold spell, as the heat is lost rapidly from the uninsulated metal containers, i.e. very inefficient. Maybe great for a retiree or someone that can do all their washing during the day, but for us who are out all day and in at night no good as two weeks of cold showers proved. So mad I am not (as my upper quartile I.Q. level demonstrates).

Tony, I would love to get the retired Electrician round, but he hates doing any electrical work now. I only got him once when his satellite didn´t work, I sorted it in exchange for him doing an electrical job for me (if only I could sabotage his satellite! :wink_smile.

Anyway, the water heater is being fed from another ring now (via extension lead) and I have disconnected the sockets in the bathroom. I am thinking of taking a course when and if funds allow (Beginners 4-weeks Electrical Course | manchester | oldham ), as I like to be independant and self sufficient.

 

[Engineer54]

Solar water heating units always connect/feed to an insulated storage tank, often behind the solar panels themselves, or remote!! The price of a complete new solar heating system for a 2 bed house or flat would only be around 1000 Euros, and will be far more efficient than any electric water heater on the market. Once installed free hot water summer and winter, night and day, depending on the insulation level on the storage tank (which will also have a back-up 3 KW immersion heater!!) Oh and my system was also made in Greece, been in place now since the house was built in 96... As i say, every single house in Cyprus has a solar water heating system, ...Why, because they work, and work extremely well too!!

 

[Dishman]

Engineer54, re-read my previous post. As you can see not all Solar water heating connect to an insulated tank!!!!!!!!! There were no solar panels, just black tubes behind glass. Very Mickey Mouse! This post was a query about RCD not tripping and shocks, not a debate about the pros and cons of solar heating (of which I am a fan of - serious units only). I bought the thermos as a stop gap as I don´t like cold showers!

 

[Dishman]

Any way getting back to the problem in hand, I spent sometime today trying to find the problem. Whilst I appear to have an earth coming up to the top floor, there must be a break in it as there is no continuity.When I ran a test lead from a working earthed socket to the bathroom and substituted that for the existing earth connection the RCD tripped out when I hit the test units trip button. Strange that the plug in unit did not show earth as missing. Could it be due to earth and neutral being connected somewhere (screw perhaps?All socket fronts have been fixed using self tapping screws with sharp points!).
I saw a local electrician (English) and asked him if he had the equipment to test for such a fault and he said “no, infact most of the professionals here don´t have that sort of equipment”, see what I am up against! Though he thought the biggest cause of the small shocks was likely to be due to the fridge, apparently as they age something breaks down causing this problem. Is this correct?

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer54, re-read my previous post. As you can see not all Solar water heating connect to an insulated tank!!!!!!!!! There were no solar panels, just black tubes behind glass. Very Mickey Mouse! This post was a query about RCD not tripping and shocks, not a debate about the pros and cons of solar heating (of which I am a fan of - serious units only). I bought the thermos as a stop gap as I don´t like cold showers!

I'll not go on anymore save to say, that what you are describing above, is exactly how a solar water heating panel is constructed !! A series of black water carrying tubes connected top and bottom via manifolds in a glass covered frame. Water in, Free sun heated hot water out!! lol!!

 

[Dishman]

No, just two black cylinders each holding approx 30 litres.

 

[Engineer54]

No, just two black cylinders each holding approx 30 litres.

Post a photo!! lol!!

 

[£££sjim]

reading this blog seems the cold shower could come in handy. LOL
Good luck Dishman, that bathroom sounds real dodgy should wear rubber wellies in there i think???