Socket and switch heights

Currently reading:
Socket and switch heights

Discuss Socket and switch heights in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

A

adsmith

-
Reaction score
4
hi guys

I’m preparing to carry out a rewire myself on a home I have just moved into. It’s a 1930s semi. And looks like it has had a rewire in the past (black and red colours - pvc cable) Id say I’m competent to carry out the work as I am a qualified industrial maintenance electrician however I don’t have relevant domestic quals. I’ve done a lot of reading on regs etc and noticed socket heights and switches need to be of a certain height from the ground. Currently the sockets in the house sit just above the skirting board. As I am carrying out the re wire do the heights need to be adjusted to the new regs or can they be kept the heights they currently are? I will be getting the work tested afterwards and don’t want it to be picked up on after work has already been carried out

Thanks
 
the specified heights apply only to new build to allow for use by disabled persons with limited reach. .you can fit the sockets and switches wherever you want on a rewire. ( bearing in mind that they should be easy to use for you and your family ). the most usual cock-up is Consumer Units fitted in silly places. Personally, I'd not for sockets below 12" from floor level. when you get to my age, you'll see why ( back aching bending).
 
oracle said:
New installation, addition or alterations must be to current standard. Your rewire constitutes a new installation. Good on you for using the Regs.
Click to expand...
to current BS7671. this does not insist on minimun heights, that's a building reg. and as i said in post#2, applies only to new builds.
 
Existing properties can be at what ever height you want ..... but in bedrooms I tend to suggest higher than "existing" to make them easier to use ...
 
How do you differtiate between new properties and new installations? Where your EICR asks the age of the installation do you put Victorian, Tudor, Edwardian etc or, say, 25 years meaning the age of the electrical installation not the age of the property.

So a complete rewire is logically a NEW ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION is it not?
 
Strima said:
A rewire would be an alteration to an existing installation as the supply is already there and has been in use.

I would only call an installation new when a new supply has been installed by the DNO and you're starting from scratch.
Click to expand...

as in:

 
I'm not picking a fight, just trying to make sense of it. Would you describe it as a new installation, addition or alteration? It will need an EIC on completion, which would need stated departures, limitations and possibly risk assessments if complete compliance is not met.

That is my thinking and I welcome clarification if I am wrong.
 
totally wrong. it's not a new build, so part m does not apply.
 
oracle said:
I'm not picking a fight, just trying to make sense of it. Would you describe it as a new installation, addition or alteration? It will need an EIC on completion, which would need stated departures, limitations and possibly risk assessments if complete compliance is not met.

That is my thinking and I welcome clarification if I am wrong.
Click to expand...
On a rewire there should be no departures or limitations.

This is an alteration.

As this is domestic then the only risk assessment you'll need is for overvoltage protection in the 18th edition.

In domestic you would be very hard pushed not to be fully compliant.
 
Going back to original poster, this quote might make you feel more confident,

"The guidance given in Approved Document M applies to all new dwellings. Note that if a dwelling is rewired, there is no requirement to provide the measures described above (refers to heights of switches and socket outlets) providing that upon completion the building is no worse in terms of the level of compliance with the other Parts of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations".

That was taken from the IET's Electricians Guides to the Building Regulations. Pretty clear cut.

The way I see it is, for an existing dwelling,

1) Don't make it worse. (eg - don't start adding sockets into skirting boards - why would anyone do that?).
2) If a major refurbishment is going on, that is to say that every wall is back to brick and every socket/switch etc and backbox is either new or requires re-locating - with a full scope of re-plastering planned, then it's difficult to justify NOT complying with Part M. (This maybe my personal opinion - but I'm sure I have read that somewhere - just can't find it right now - anyone?)
3) If the locations of the sockets/switches do not comply with Part M, but are otherwise in sensible/safe location (eg not over a draining board/sink and not too close to a floor,worktop, hob etc.), and if minimum disruption to paint and plaster is needed, then you can re-use them without fear of non-compliance.
4) Any new building work such as extensions or loft/garage conversions must comply with Part M (and other building regs).

Hope this helps. :)
 
Marcus Vaughan said:
The way I see it is, for an existing dwelling,

1) Don't make it worse. (eg - don't start adding sockets into skirting boards - why would anyone do that?).

Agree

2) If a major refurbishment is going on, that is to say that every wall is back to brick and every socket/switch etc and back box is either new or requires re-locating - with a full scope of re-plastering planned, then it's difficult to justify NOT complying with Part M. (This maybe my personal opinion - but I'm sure I have read that somewhere - just can't find it right now - anyone?)

Disagree - its not a new build

3) If the locations of the sockets/switches do not comply with Part M, but are otherwise in sensible/safe location (eg not over a draining board/sink and not too close to a floor,worktop, hob etc.), and if minimum disruption to paint and plaster is needed, then you can re-use them without fear of non-compliance.

Common sense applies

4) Any new building work such as extensions or loft/garage conversions must comply with Part M (and other building regs).

Disagree .......................

Hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...

My comments in itallic above
 
Marcus Vaughan said:
Going back to original poster, this quote might make you feel more confident,

"The guidance given in Approved Document M applies to all new dwellings. Note that if a dwelling is rewired, there is no requirement to provide the measures described above (refers to heights of switches and socket outlets) providing that upon completion the building is no worse in terms of the level of compliance with the other Parts of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations".

That was taken from the IET's Electricians Guides to the Building Regulations. Pretty clear cut.

The way I see it is, for an existing dwelling,

1) Don't make it worse. (eg - don't start adding sockets into skirting boards - why would anyone do that?).
2) If a major refurbishment is going on, that is to say that every wall is back to brick and every socket/switch etc and backbox is either new or requires re-locating - with a full scope of re-plastering planned, then it's difficult to justify NOT complying with Part M. (This maybe my personal opinion - but I'm sure I have read that somewhere - just can't find it right now - anyone?)
3) If the locations of the sockets/switches do not comply with Part M, but are otherwise in sensible/safe location (eg not over a draining board/sink and not too close to a floor,worktop, hob etc.), and if minimum disruption to paint and plaster is needed, then you can re-use them without fear of non-compliance.
4) Any new building work such as extensions or loft/garage conversions must comply with Part M (and other building regs).

Hope this helps. :)
Click to expand...
Thank you, that puts it nicely into context.
 
Murdoch said:
My comments in itallic above
Click to expand...

Hi Murdoch,
Thanks for commenting - I always appreciate that - and keen to learn.
I have no issue with your disagreement with point 2, as it was just my personal preference.
Point 4 though - I got from The Electricians Guide to the Building Regs;

Page 30 - Section 2.1.2.2 "Building Works"

"Additions or extensions to a building must comply with the Building Regulations. If wiring is carried out in an extension to an existing building, the wiring to the extension must comply not only with Part P but also with all the other appropriate requirements of the Building Regulations."

I know its only a guide, and I'll admit I am struggling to draw the same information out of the Part P document itself, but still fear that if I don't comply with this in extensions the I'll be pulled by the LABC?
 
Marcus Vaughan said:
Hi Murdoch,
Thanks for commenting - I always appreciate that - and keen to learn.
I have no issue with your disagreement with point 2, as it was just my personal preference.
Point 4 though - I got from The Electricians Guide to the Building Regs;

Page 30 - Section 2.1.2.2 "Building Works"

"Additions or extensions to a building must comply with the Building Regulations. If wiring is carried out in an extension to an existing building, the wiring to the extension must comply not only with Part P but also with all the other appropriate requirements of the Building Regulations."

I know its only a guide, and I'll admit I am struggling to draw the same information out of the Part P document itself, but still fear that if I don't comply with this in extensions the I'll be pulled by the LABC?
Click to expand...

But Part M says extensions can be in keeping with existing installations ...............

Just imagine an extension to a 1950's property with the lounge growing by say 3m - sockets touching the skirting board in the old bit and 450mm off the floor at the other end ............. that's just daft.

So as usual the VERY POORLY written regs - YES, DCLG - that's you AGAIN ............... send confusion into the industry.......
 
If I was having an extension done and I employed an electrician who placed the sockets and switches at different heights to the rest of the property he/she would be back to place them at heights matching the rest of the house.
 
Part M is an attempt to standardise buildings.
The prescribed heights are for where the end user is unknown.
Where the end user is known, such as in a rewire, extension or new build for a client who intends to live in the property, the heights quoted in Part M are superseded by the wishes of the end user.
If the end user wants the heights quoted in Part M, then fine, if they want them higher, or lower, then again fine.
 
Murdoch said:
But Part M says extensions can be in keeping with existing installations ...............

Just imagine an extension to a 1950's property with the lounge growing by say 3m - sockets touching the skirting board in the old bit and 450mm off the floor at the other end ............. that's just daft.

So as usual the VERY POORLY written regs - YES, DCLG - that's you AGAIN ............... send confusion into the industry.......
Click to expand...

Agree with the 'daft'.
Agree with the confusion!

I think I'll have a proper read of Part M.
 
Strima said:
If I was having an extension done and I employed an electrician who placed the sockets and switches at different heights to the rest of the property he/she would be back to place them at heights matching the rest of the house.
Click to expand...

Really?
That's interesting.
I agree it would look daft in Murdoch's example - but if it was in a different room and therefore you could not see sockets and switches at different heights at the same time.....
 
Marcus Vaughan said:
Really?
That's interesting.
I agree it would look daft in Murdoch's example - but if it was in a different room and therefore you could not see sockets and switches at different heights at the same time.....
Click to expand...
My house, my opinion. And yes, I would notice.
 
New posts

Reply to Socket and switch heights in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

C
Spur from cooker supply
Replies
14
Views
1K
Pretty Mouth
Pretty Mouth
coraline
Meross smart switch
Replies
9
Views
596
Rockingit
Rockingit
B
Normal and USB sockets for home
Replies
19
Views
1K
bulktrans
B
S
  • Question
Outdoor electrical socket
Replies
19
Views
839
Dustydazzler
D
littlespark
Squared edged faceplates for grid switches
Replies
5
Views
739
nicebutdim
nicebutdim
Tiling Forum

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

UK Tiling Forum
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
    • Tiling Advice
    Back
    Top