15 amp Three round pin double sockets.

[DNS]

Hi....I have been asked by a local land owner, who lives in the local mansion!!!!!!!!!! If I could replace all the double sockets in the house....the main house....not the West wing where the kitchen is....lol The trouble is the old double round pin 15amp sockets have bigger face plates than normal sockets, I haven't actually measured them yet. I'm doing a bit of research first. Are there companies that specialize in this sort of thing. They have to be BRAAAARRRRSSS also. I was told. Those totally spiffing good chaps on tharrt electricians forum are bound to know, I proceeded to tell one.

 

[Adam W]

Presumably the old backboxes are imperial, so they may need to be replaced for metric ones.
What kind of condition are the cables in?

Are you changing them for BS1363 sockets or replacing like for like with 15A ones?

 

[Marvo]

Have you got photos of the backboxes? If they're really old they may be hand made wooden ones which were built to size.

 

[Top Cat]

Hi....I have been asked by a local land owner, who lives in the local mansion!!!!!!!!!! If I could replace all the double sockets in the house....the main house....not the West wing where the kitchen is....lol The trouble is the old double round pin 15amp sockets have bigger face plates than normal sockets, I haven't actually measured them yet. I'm doing a bit of research first. Are there companies that specialize in this sort of thing. They have to be BRAAAARRRRSSS also. I was told. Those totally spiffing good chaps on tharrt electricians forum are bound to know, I proceeded to tell one.

I am the local land owner you talk about, i am not sure what you mean as this is only my weekend retreat!

Why are you enquiring about brass when i specifically told you it had to be solid gold?

I will get my butler to speak with you Monday!

 

[ackbarthestar]

If you are upgrading the round pined plugs and sockets, to BS 546, I think, you'll need to check the cabling. such as VRI/TRS sheathing, stranded aluminum, tinned copper 2.5/1.0 or the imperial equivalent
See link below

Standard wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Knobhead]

Do a full survey, not just an EICR. You’re going to open a full can of worms if you don't.
View attachment 12356
You may be lucky and there’s PVC cable to the boxes, but with imperial boxes I doubt your luck will be in.
This leads to the thorny question of rewiring:

Floor boards: how are you going to lift them and replace without visible damage?

Wall drops: how do you get behind cornices and dado rail’s without doing ££££’s of damage?



I’ve done a rewire in a manor house (one of only five house rewires I’ve done in 40 years). I tackled it like an industrial job. Each section of the manor was a separate entity. Each with a sub board and RCD from a central 4 way 60A 3Ph Red Spot board fed by a 200A 3Ph service head fitted new. I never got to see the bill for that!

The place was built by an engineer in the 1890’s. Electric installed by his son in the 20’s. Cables run in old gas pipes you name it, it was all in there. Some of the lighting drops I’m sure were light gauge hydraulic pipe. Where I could I reused them.
It took us over a year on and off. The squire was my labourer, and everyone else’s for that matter, poor lad was run off his feet at weekends. Expert brickies, masons, carpenters and restoration plasterers on call when needed (nearly all the time).

The squires daughter could I’m sure wire a normal house on her own at 14 years old. She always volunteered to be my mate/gofor at the weekend.
.
We near had the forerunner of the “Del Boy and the chandelier” episode.

Basically the place was a wreck, but what could be saved we did. It was a private job but English Heritage despite their reputation was helpful. They helped me with the problem of cornices in the rooms where tube (conduit?) hadn’t been run at the first wiring 60+ years before. The carpenter and joiner went on to get good work out of EH.

It was all done at mates rates as far as labour was concerned, but it all paid back in the end. I dread to think what the final bill was

 

[Engineer54]

I can't ever remember seeing double 15A socket outlet plates!!! If they were made, they would be made by people like ''Wandsworth'' (And they are expensive) who specialise in made to measure plate accessories etc. Can't really see the point in replacing them like for like as they would have to go on 16A radials as there is no plug top fuse facility in those old 15A designs...

As Tony stated, you could well be opening up a can of worms here, what with how they are wired along with what cable used, and with what protection!! ...lol!!

 

[ackbarthestar]

I once had a box of 15A round pin socket plates. Manufactured by MK and they were brown round edged Bakerlite.... Nice !

 

[Engineer54]

I once had a box of 15A round pin socket plates. Manufactured by MK and they were brown round edged Bakelite.... Nice !

I bet none of them were doubles!! ...lol!!

They were solid old plugs and outlets were the old UK 15A design. Still extensively used in many countries for higher/bigger loadings. More brass content in those things than in some of the current 30A plug top designs...lol!!

 

[Guest111]

I bet none of them were doubles!! ...lol!!

They were solid old plugs and outlets were the old UK 15A design. Still extensively used in many countries for higher/bigger loadings. More brass content in those things than in some of the current 30A plug top designs...lol!!

Aye they dont make em like they used to,remember the early 13a plugs when you had to slide the flex through the top? be honest now how many of them did you cut as you only realised after wiring it up that you hadn,t threaded flex through top. lol

 

[Knobhead]

Your showing your age Phil!

I hated those Duraplugs!

 

[Guest111]

Your showing your age Phil!

I hated those Duraplugs!

wondered if anyone would remember the name,mind you the mk could be a pain at times wrapping wire round terminal.

 

[DNS]

I am the local land owner you talk about, i am not sure what you mean as this is only my weekend retreat!

Why are you enquiring about brass when i specifically told you it had to be solid gold?

I will get my butler to speak with you Monday!

" O Blarrst"

 

[DNS]

Do a full survey, not just an EICR. You’re going to open a full can of worms if you don't.
View attachment 12356
You may be lucky and there’s PVC cable to the boxes, but with imperial boxes I doubt your luck will be in.
This leads to the thorny question of rewiring:

Floor boards: how are you going to lift them and replace without visible damage?

Wall drops: how do you get behind cornices and dado rail’s without doing ££££’s of damage?



I’ve done a rewire in a manor house (one of only five house rewires I’ve done in 40 years). I tackled it like an industrial job. Each section of the manor was a separate entity. Each with a sub board and RCD from a central 4 way 60A 3Ph Red Spot board fed by a 200A 3Ph service head fitted new. I never got to see the bill for that!

The place was built by an engineer in the 1890’s. Electric installed by his son in the 20’s. Cables run in old gas pipes you name it, it was all in there. Some of the lighting drops I’m sure were light gauge hydraulic pipe. Where I could I reused them.
It took us over a year on and off. The squire was my labourer, and everyone else’s for that matter, poor lad was run off his feet at weekends. Expert brickies, masons, carpenters and restoration plasterers on call when needed (nearly all the time).

The squires daughter could I’m sure wire a normal house on her own at 14 years old. She always volunteered to be my mate/gofor at the weekend.
.
We near had the forerunner of the “Del Boy and the chandelier” episode.

Basically the place was a wreck, but what could be saved we did. It was a private job but English Heritage despite their reputation was helpful. They helped me with the problem of cornices in the rooms where tube (conduit?) hadn’t been run at the first wiring 60+ years before. The carpenter and joiner went on to get good work out of EH.

It was all done at mates rates as far as labour was concerned, but it all paid back in the end. I dread to think what the final bill was

The house started off as one, added to, then added to again. At one time it had VIR (vulcanized India rubber) in the first part of the building, That had been taken out and replaced back in the early 60's, much of the installation is lead sheathed, but without a detailed inspection I couldn't be certain of how much is lead. I was there the other day when he asked me to look at moving a light switch in the scullery........ it only has to be raised 150mm above some marble cladding he wants putting in the room. The cable to the switch is lead sheathed, I was very weary of touching the wires because the insulation can break down. Then can and worms come to mind. It turned out the insulation was in good order. So I put it all back together and said I couldn't do it right now. The switch plate is screwed into a wooden box which is how they used to do it many moons ago apparently. If I was to move it. What is the best way to strip the lead sheath?, would it be best to carefully nibble through it with side cutters. I would probably use a metal back box, How would I connect earth from the box to the lead sheath? I don't really want to disturb too much.

 

[DNS]

The house started off as one, added to, then added to again. At one time it had VIR (vulcanized India rubber) in the first part of the building, That had been taken out and replaced back in the early 60's, much of the installation is lead sheathed, but without a detailed inspection I couldn't be certain of how much is lead. I was there the other day when he asked me to look at moving a light switch in the scullery........ it only has to be raised 150mm above some marble cladding he wants putting in the room. The cable to the switch is lead sheathed, I was very weary of touching the wires because the insulation can break down. Then can and worms come to mind. It turned out the insulation was in good order. So I put it all back together and said I couldn't do it right now. The switch plate is screwed into a wooden box which is how they used to do it many moons ago apparently. If I was to move it. What is the best way to strip the lead sheath?, would it be best to carefully nibble through it with side cutters. I would probably use a metal back box, How would I connect earth from the box to the lead sheath? I don't really want to disturb too much.

I will take some pictures of the socket etc and other fittings and post on this thread.

 

[cogsey133]

I once had a box of 15A round pin socket plates. Manufactured by MK and they were brown round edged Bakerlite.... Nice !

I got the plug that fitted into the lamp holder too......lmao

 

[snowhead]

as there is no plug top fuse facility in those old 15A designs...

There is but only 5amp;

Buy MK Electric Round Pin Plug, Three Pin, Fused, White, 5A - 641WHI

 

[DNS]

There is but only 5amp;

Buy MK Electric Round Pin Plug, Three Pin, Fused, White, 5A - 641WHI

Permaplug 15amp Rubber Plug Top Heavy Duty PT15B | eBay
.

I'm not after the 15amp plugs, what I was asking was, the customer would like to have square pin sockets instead of having to use adapters. But the face plates are larger and the screw positions are wider.

 

[ackbarthestar]

I bet none of them were doubles!! ...lol!!

They were solid old plugs and outlets were the old UK 15A design. Still extensively used in many countries for higher/bigger loadings. More brass content in those things than in some of the current 30A plug top designs...lol!!

They certainly were, a box of 10 single switched socket outlets.
I despair when compared with modern accessories. 'Quality' has changed from longevity and permanence to being suitable for its warrentee period and measured by its MTBF.

As far as lead covered rubber insulated cables go. Building control recommend that they are passed their 'sell by' date. You could, of course, IR test them and then indemnify the wiring for another 5 years but IMO I would recommend a complete rewire.

If you get the job, you'll have a really good example of the craftsmanship that was put in to install this type of wiring.

 

[Guest111]

cpc farnell part no PL01929 15 a round pin fused plug top not cheap but could keep the lid on the worms.

 

[DNS]

cpc farnell part no PL01929 15 a round pin fused plug top not cheap but could keep the lid on the worms.

Thank you for your suggestions, But I am not after Round pin plugs nor round pin sockets, the sockets in the house are round pin and all working ok.the customer would like square pin replacements instead of having to use adapters, which would have the danger of overloading the outlet, but the round pin socket plates are bigger than the square pin, screw centers are wider apart. You could probably make some kind of adapter plate, but it wouldn't look the same.

 

[Engineer54]

Hi....I have been asked by a local land owner, who lives in the local mansion!!!!!!!!!! If I could replace all the double sockets in the house....the main house....not the West wing where the kitchen is....lol The trouble is the old double round pin 15amp sockets have bigger face plates than normal sockets, I haven't actually measured them yet. I'm doing a bit of research first. Are there companies that specialize in this sort of thing. They have to be BRAAAARRRRSSS also. I was told. Those totally spiffing good chaps on tharrt electricians forum are bound to know, I proceeded to tell one.

Thank you for your suggestions, But I am not after Round pin plugs nor round pin sockets, the sockets in the house are round pin and all working ok.the customer would like square pin replacements instead of having to use adapters, which would have the danger of overloading the outlet, but the round pin socket plates are bigger than the square pin, screw centers are wider apart. You could probably make some kind of adapter plate, but it wouldn't look the same.

Well reading your OP, there is not a single mention of 13A sockets in fact quite the opposite, it's plainly asking about replacing old 15A double sockets for new!! lol!!!

 

[DNS]

Well reading your OP, there is not a single mention of 13A sockets in fact quite the opposite, it's plainly asking about replacing old 15A double sockets for new!! lol!!!

Please I beg for your forgiveness, quite plainly I didn't explain myself properly He would like the round pin sockets replaced with square pin, but the round pin face plates are bigger than the square pin and also the screws on the round pin plates are in each corner x4 I was asking if there was a posibility that some compamy somewhere specializes in making replacements.

 

[Engineer54]

Please I beg for your forgiveness, quite plainly I didn't explain myself properly He would like the round pin sockets replaced with square pin, but the round pin face plates are bigger than the square pin and also the screws on the round pin plates are in each corner x4 I was asking if there was a posibility that some compamy somewhere specializes in making replacements.

No Problem!! ...lol!!

Without seeing a photo of these existing 4 fixing back boxes, i can only suggest, ...can a new back box fit inside the old oversized back boxes if the 4 fixing lugs are removed?? Other than that, we await to see these face plates and back boxes in the promised photo's... lol!!

 

[DNS]

No Problem!! ...lol!!

Without seeing a photo of these existing 4 fixing back boxes, i can only suggest, ...can a new back box fit inside the old oversized back boxes if the 4 fixing lugs are removed?? Other than that, we await to see these face plates and back boxes in the promised photo's... lol!!

I'm going there tonight, I shall take the pictures and measurements and post on here..

 

[PC Electrics]

Hamilton do "one offs". Ask at your local Denmans.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Old brass socket...

 

[polo1]

......on an old OSG:wink_smile:

 

[robd]

Seem to remember seeing some ad's in the back of the professional electrician mag (on the counter at wholesalers) for 'vintage' accessories, I don't have one to hand or I'd look.

 

[Adam W]

Wouldn't be this site would it?