3 phase installation for power shower

[Knobhead]

Blaster Bates & Son
Plumbing engineers and demolition contractors.
View attachment 12409

 

[mickbristol]

hi and thanks for your replies,
of course i wouldn't fit a big electric supply on my own. was just an idea but i quickly realised how insane it was.
back to my shower, i have measured twice and i have about 8.5 liters per minute at cold temperature. which is about 16 deg C at this time of the year.
i tried again to measure via the shower and got a small 4.5 liters per minute at 41 degC.
i am waiting to received an instantaneous water heater of 12kW. i know it's a good hight current and need a 50 amps circuit breaker with thick cables...
but i will give it a try. i will disconnect the bathroom taps and supply it via the water heater see what the flow is like before rebuilding the shower...
i hope that will be good enough as i wouldnt like to use a system with storage water (not a lot of space available, energy waste etc...)
so ill updated my progress shortly..
but thanks again for your messages

 

[Engineer54]

A 12KW shower, the mind boggles!!

I'm sure Tel will have to get one of them now!! lol!!! mg_smile: :blush5:

 

[jaresquire]

He probably needs it..

 

[mickbristol]

who is Tel?

 

[Engineer54]

who is Tel?

''telectrix'' He just love's big Shower units, the more/higher the KW rating the better!! lol!!! :sifone:

 

[Rick0rz]

I personally dont think you can compare a electric shower to one off a boiler, big electric shower 11kw.. my shower at home off a 35kw combi along with great water pressure = removes grout from tiles

 

[mickbristol]

hello
i think you are right... i have started by cleaning my 8.5kW shiwer to make sure it wasnt faulty, and i def cant get more than 4.5 L/m so i doubt a 12kW will give me 8 or 9 L/m.
i correct my old thread but i guess everybody guessed. i want a "powerful shower" not a power shower. i know a power shower needs a pump and a water storage to deliver big amounts of water.
back to my plans, im confused about combi boilers... when i read online i see that combi boilers never run iit of hot water as it heats on demand. so how come in the spec it says it can deliver 8 or 9 L/m for 9kW??? did i read it wrong? also why some combi boilers also specify a capacity like 210 litres? i thought it heats on demand?
i dont have gas and dont hqve radiators, so basically the boiler im looking for must be electric and just for a "powerful shower" with 8 or 9 litres per minutes. i dont have 3 phases supply so i guessed 12kW is the max i can get, am i right?
any advices?

thanks

 

[UKMeterman]

Hi,
How do you heat all your water at the moment? Do you have a hot water cylinder? If you do not have a hot water cylinder, do you have space anywhere, even for a small one? How long do you want each shower to last, what temprature and what is the flow rate at your cold tap.

Once we have this information then we can make suggestions.

 

[mickbristol]

hi,
yes i have a vented cylinder, i guess 100 litres, and a water storage in the loft.
as the kitchen tap was a bit far away and very low flow rate, i put a undersink water heater, so my cylinder is now only used for the bathroom tap (bit waste i guess)
i have room for a boiler but i was ideally thinking of having no water storage, and an instant heater to save energy and water. but before that i mainly want a powerful shower so i guess it will be one or the other ? ...
i would like instant heating as i would like to have a shower at any time of the day (without heating the water for the whole day)
my showers are on average 10 minutes, but if i could reach 20 or even unlimited, that's perfect
my cold water can deliver easily 8 litres/minute, i have fitted a valve pressure reduction for my undersink heater, i have limited to 4 bars, so i guess i could have more than 8 litres/minute without it.
thanks

 

[UKMeterman]

Hi.
So get the cylinder changed for an unvented modern one, they have very little heat loss, and then replumb to have a mains pressure shower. The cylinder is then heated over a longer period with a 3Kw heater.

 

[mickbristol]

sorry im pretty new and rubbish with heating systems... i need more details...
is that mean i can get rid of the water storage in my loft ?
what do you mean by replumbing?
thanks

 

[UKMeterman]

Hi,
Yes the tank in the loft can go, you will need a new mixer valve, and if you buy the right cylinder you have the option in the future to have solar to heat the hot water directly.

 

[mickbristol]

looks like the safest and better option eould be a thermal store? would you agree? but looks like there will be a limited amount of hot water available?
is there any other type of boiler that can deliver unlimited hot water at main pressure?

 

[UKMeterman]

looks like the safest and better option eould be a thermal store? would you agree? but looks like there will be a limited amount of hot water available?
is there any other type of boiler that can deliver unlimited hot water at main pressure?

It takes a lot of energy to heat water, look up the specific heat capacity of water. You do not have enough energy avaliable at your location to heat water at the rate you want on demand. The unvented hot water cylinder I have suggested are now becomeing common in the UK and have been used for many years on the continent. If you do go down the route of the thermal store you need somewhere to put the thermal store and due to the accessories such as the plate heat exchanger you may find it too big.

 

[joe j]

I'm very worried by this thread.

 

[Knobhead]

I'm very worried by this thread.

Just close you’re eyes and think of England.

If this thread worries you there’s even better if you look for them!

 

[mickbristol]

It takes a lot of energy to heat water, look up the specific heat capacity of water. You do not have enough energy avaliable at your location to heat water at the rate you want on demand. The unvented hot water cylinder I have suggested are now becomeing common in the UK and have been used for many years on the continent. If you do go down the route of the thermal store you need somewhere to put the thermal store and due to the accessories such as the plate heat exchanger you may find it too big.

i understand, but i can see some boilers 15kW single phase, surely they can deliver around 10 liters/minutes hot water with heat on demand ? that's all i want
as i understand, a thermal store has hot water in it, and the hot water delivered is only the main cold running through inside the thermal and taking the heat of the warmed water inside.
even if there a combi (that would leave me the option to install radiators one day if i need to)

thanks

 

[UKMeterman]

i understand, but i can see some boilers 15kW single phase, surely they can deliver around 10 liters/minutes hot water with heat on demand ? that's all i want
as i understand, a thermal store has hot water in it, and the hot water delivered is only the main cold running through inside the thermal and taking the heat of the warmed water inside.
even if there a combi (that would leave me the option to install radiators one day if i need to)

thanks

Your Electrics can't supply 15KW if you want anything else connected at the same time, 15KW from GAS is easy to do. If you want stored hot water, or a thermal store have a chat with Albion Cylinders Albion Water Heaters they do Unvented cylinders and thermal stores.

 

[Philpot]

I get the feeling that someone is taking the ............

He is now talking about Gas when earlier he didn't have any. Everything you suggest he just come up with another impractical suggestion. We are just too helpful !!!