6mm kitchen radial sockets with cooker on 40amp MCB

[GarethBlake]

I've been asked to change few double sockets, but not keen on touching after seeing 6mm cable, so did a bit of checking as can see the kitchen 'extension' has been wired in 6mm (red) with a 40amp MCB. The radial has 5 double sockets, including a dishwasher, tumble dryer, washing machine and cooker at end of circuit. She is about to sell the property and I'm concerned. She said it has been like this for over 20 years and never had a problem, would appreciate any opinion on this. Thanks.

 

[James]

in my opinion, it is not acceptable.
due to the fact the terminals on the sockets may become overloaded before the breaker trips.
20A max for a radial with 13A sockets in my opinion.
32A ring is ok as the load is distributed around 2 legs so its unlikely to have over 20A on any one leg.

 

[GarethBlake]

in my opinion, it is not acceptable.
due to the fact the terminals on the sockets may become overloaded before the breaker trips.
20A max for a radial with 13A sockets in my opinion.
32A ring is ok as the load is distributed around 2 legs so its unlikely to have over 20A on any one leg.

I am also concerned about overload of cables and connectors, I was going to suggest to change the MCB to a 32amp from a 40amp.

 

[Dustydazzler]

What are the actual terminals rated at on a standard cheapo double socket ? Im sure I read somewhere they are rated at 20amps

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The design guide in app 15 offers a 4mm2 radial on a 32A breaker for socket outlets, so presumably the terminals at the rear of socket outets can take 32A.

Whether 40A is acceptable, only the socket manufacturer can confirm. Maybe put the question to them? Be interesting to hear what they say. I did put this question to scolmore a while back, but I couldn't get them to understand what I was asking, and they stopped answering my emails after a couple of attempts.

You may also find that some socket terminals are not able to take 2 X 6mm2 conductors.

 

[littlespark]

Is there enough room to make a 3 way joint in the back of the boxes?

Loop the 6mm through, and spur off the joint into the back of the socket.

Then the joint is taking the full load, not the socket terminals.

 

[Intoelectrics]

What are the actual terminals rated at on a standard cheapo double socket ? Im sure I read somewhere they are rated at 20amps

Since a double socket has a load potential of 26amps across the twin outlet, then I would assume that all socket terminal points are rated for 32amp since a 4mm2 32 amp radial is permissible also.

 

[GarethBlake]

Is there enough room to make a 3 way joint in the back of the boxes?

Loop the 6mm through, and spur off the joint into the back of the socket.

Then the joint is taking the full load, not the socket terminals.

Just to also add there is a spur going to another socket on a 4mm cable. so behind 1 socket are 2 x 6mm and 1 x 4mm was thinking of using 3 wagos (221) 0.5-6 41A and blank that socket outlet.

 

[GarethBlake]

The line and neutral wires were just twisted together with a small bit of cable going into the terminal, the socket literary just came away from the terminals as not enough room in the blocks ! :/

 

[Dustydazzler]

With the eye watering price of copper cable these days I would be stripping all the 6mm cable out and re-wire it in 2,5

Keep the 6mm in the van for future cooker and hob hook ups

 

[GarethBlake]

With the eye watering price of copper cable these days I would be stripping all the 6mm cable out and re-wire it in 2,5

Keep the 6mm in the van for future cooker and hob hook ups

LOL ...think customer would not be too pleased..In all serious do you think what I suggested is ok?
Blank plate on the socket containing the 2 x 6mm and 1 x 4mm put into 3 wagos (221) 0.5-6 41A, keep the 40A MCB in the CU.

 

[littlespark]

Keep the 6mm in the van for future cooker and hob hook ups

Don’t you use flex between outlet and appliance?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Don’t you use flex between outlet and appliance?

I use what ever I have on me , depending on the terminals I sometimes use t&e and I do have a roll of 4mm rubber flex for special occasions

 

[GarethBlake]

...would appreciate any thoughts on the...Blank plate on the socket containing the 2 x 6mm and 1 x 4mm put into 3 wagos (221) 0.5-6 41A, keep the 40A MCB in the CU.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I have used Wago to extend 6mm cable no problem

The issue is still you have sockets on a 40amp mcb and don't know the rating on the sockets

 

[littlespark]

I have used Wago to extend 6mm cable no problem

The issue is still you have sockets on a 40amp mcb and don't know the rating on the sockets

With my earlier suggestion of joints in the boxes and a pigtail onto the socket, the socket terminals will not be taking the full load of the circuit, the joint behind will.

 

[timhoward]

Some sockets are easier with bigger wire than others, Crabtree comes to mind.
Any reason you can’t change the breaker to a B32 and improve the current terminations?
I know 6mm is a bit of a pain but it’s usually doable.

 

[GarethBlake]

Thanks guys, I think I will advise the customer to change the 40A to a 32A MCB as concerned about overload within the sockets, the only issue there maybe constant tripping due to cooker, etc, if a short initial surge :/

 

[pc1966]

You have to try really, really hard to trip the MCB with a cooker. Most folks would baulk at the electricity cost now in any case!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Slightly OT , but since getting my air fryer I have probably used my actual oven twice