Discuss Advice on Barn Wiring in the Australia area at ElectriciansForums.net

M

moody89

Hi all, I've been a long time lurker on these forums and have found it a great resource and pool of knowledge. Now I'm after a bit of advice myself on something that I don't have a lot of experience with. I've been asked to have a look at installing lighting and socket-outlets in a small barn. I'm confident in doing the work and have done my homework and been through Section 705 in the Regs, as well as searching through these forums for similar posts. The barn is used mainly for storage but does house some livestock.

Basically, the client is having a new electrical supply installed by the DNO in the near future so I'm starting from scratch with the wiring. My main concern is that he has told me that the DNO will be installing a PME system. Having gone through S-705, to my understanding it is not recommended that there be a PME system installed where a metal grid is not installed in the floor. I'm fairly certain that there is no metal grid in the floor on this barn. Would it be worthwhile suggesting tha he contact the DNO and see if they can change to a TN-S system when they install the supply or would I be better to TT it anyway? Browsing through posts on these forums, I've seen quite a few recommendations to use a TT system. As a side-note, I'm pretty sure I understand the reasoning of the earthed metallic grid underneath the floor, but why is it a particular issue if one is not installed on a TN-C-S system? I'd be intrigued to understand this if someone more experienced an offer an explanation!

Obviously, being a barn, it is susceptible to moisture etc and I understand that Section 705 states a minimum of IP44 for all equipment. My understanding of this is that all the socket outlets, light switches, light fittings etc. will need to be at least IP44 and I am assuming that this also includes the consumer unit. Is this correct or will this be overkill? The original plan was that he wanted a large grid switch to individually switch the lights in rows etc or something similar. If so, can this be done and still meet IP44 specs? For those of you who have experience in agricultural work, what type of wiring system would be most suitable? Obviously there is a need for mechanical protection but I've also heard that galv isn't the best option due to moisture etc. I'm also concerned about rodents but I am not certain on what would be the best way to prevent cable damage from rodents whilst also meeting the other needs I mentioned. I was thinking heavy duty PVC conduit or even doing the lot in SWA but I wasn't sure how rodent-proof SWA would be.

Apologies for the essay and for a few questions that may seem obvious to some of you, but as I mentioned, I don't have a lot of experience in this type of work but I am keen to do the job to a high standard and just want to do things right. Thanks in advice for any feedback!
 
Any input on this one guys? Have sorted the majority of my queries after speaking to the him etc. but am mainly now concerned with the earthing. Those of you who have experience in agricultural work, do you normally TT them and how do you set this up? I've heard a few suggestions to install several earth rods. Is this the best way forward? Many thanks for any feedback.
 
Whilst doing some reading on ground currents and stray voltages for work, I found out that PME isn't recommended for environments where livestock are kept as neutral faults can lead to a few V/m which isn't good for the livestock. TT is an old favourite for this environment as the distance to the substation neutral keeps the V/m down. However, I will caveat that I'm an electronic engineer, not an electrician.
 
Is the barn supplied directly by the DNO or is it supplied via another building?

I personally would TT the earthing and I'd be aiming for a good impedence reading which might mean several long rods depending on the ground. Please not I'm not UK based so I'm not sure what the preference would be there. What construction is the barn?...ie does it have a steel frame or any substantial steelwork? Are there other services to be bonded as well?

As for cabling SWA would make for an easy install but I've seen SWA suffer badly with rodents. If you think rodents are an issue you could use swa on steel cable tray and lid it afterward to make it rodent-proof.
 
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The TNC-S (PME) earthing is not recommended where the barn will be used for 4 legged livestock. If just it's just a storage barn then there shouldn't be any problems using the PME connection.

If livestock is involved, TT the barn and use DEEP (multiple connected rods) in at least 2 locations that are linked together. Your trying to achieve the lowest Ra you can get, along with a good overall earthing system stability...

If no animals/livestock are involved, then you can use an anti flora/forna heavy duty pvc conduit (usually black colour) Otherwise, i would go for galvanised conduit and trunking, it's a lot tougher than some make out it to be, just give it a good coat of galv paint on exposed threads and damaged coating areas.... Conduit of whatever material is excellent for future re-wiring and modification requirements of these types of buildings...
 
Hi Moody69 , As there will be livestock and no metal grid TT is your only choice , as Engineer 54 has said you could use galv conduit but i sense from your post that you may not be that experienced with it ( Sorry if i have this wrong )?
I would recommend swa , this is both tough and versatile . ( Sorry Marvo , our rats ain't as big as lions over here ! :ihih:)

Also i would highly recommend you use the MK master seal seal range of fittings coupled with 6ft twin HF anti corrosive florri's and trifos daylight tubes , not cheap but once it is in you are very unlikely to get a all back for a fault !
 
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Hi Moody69 , As there will be livestock and no metal grid TT is your only choice , as Engineer 54 has said you could use galv conduit but i sense from your post that you may not be that experienced with it ( Sorry if i have this wrong )?
I would recommend swa , this is both tough and versatile . ( Sorry Marvo , our rats ain't as big as lions over here ! :ihih:)

Also i would highly recommend you use the MK master seal seal range of fittings coupled with 6ft twin HF anti corrosive florri's and trifos daylight tubes , not cheap but once it is in you are very unlikely to get a all back for a fault !

You haven't been down to Tilbury docks then!! lol!! Think you'll be surprised just how big some of those rat's get. They come in from all over the world, even them ones from South Africa...lol!!
 
Lol, yep we do get some pretty impressive rats. I worked on a cold storage installation in the harbour area a couple of years ago, took my 12 gauge and a box of salt shells down to sort the problem out. :)
 
I'm soon to be wiring a barn used for storage and I have a couple of queries. CU/Sockets/Switches will all be in one unit like this http://img03.aprod.hu/images_aprodh...003-ip-55-csatlakozo-szekreny-xii-kerulet.jpg

1) Cable feed in will be SWA and the only outgoing cables will be to the lighting. I'm planning to run those in flexible conduit, but can somebody recommend me a pigeon/rat/mouse proof conduit? I'd sooner use plastic stuff for ease of installation but if only metal would do the job, I'm happy to be told

2) Can anyone recommend me a UK supplier of the more obscure bits of the Gewiss range, the products look ideal to make that all-in-one board but struggling on sourcing bits at the moment
 
How big is this barn?? So what are you saying here, that the light switchs and outlets are all going in this one Gewiss unit?? Wish the farmer luck then, with all those extension leads he's going to be needing!! lol!!

You can get flora and fauna resistant heavy walled PVC conduit...
 
How big is this barn?? So what are you saying here, that the light switchs and outlets are all going in this one Gewiss unit?? Wish the farmer luck then, with all those extension leads he's going to be needing!! lol!!

You can get flora and fauna resistant heavy walled PVC conduit...

The barn's about 9x9m and for the last 40 years or so the farmer has used a 25m extension from the house to the yard for power tools about twice a year. I suggested to him the cost of installing sockets in addition to lights would be minimal. Plan is for the gewiss unit to contain two 13A sockets and three light switches. Can you recommend any flexible conduit in particular?
 
If the building is being used for storage I would suggest using MK masterseal sockets and as already has been suggested anti corrosive light fittings. You are likely to have a build up of dust which could cause potential for fire.
 

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