Discuss another perspective on comparing different brands of panels in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Hi,

Just noticed that you have the WINAICO mono panels in the table. Would you be able to add the 235W or 240W poly. These panels have very good performance in UK light conditions (out performing some well know mono panels!) and are a more cost effective option.

Thanks in advance.

Mike Doherty
WINAICO
07952 426080
 
Why do you lot seem to give a damn what PVSOL says? It is meaningless. It's a computer programme that uses manufacturers STC data - this has very little to do with what actually happens in the real world!!

We do not live in a lab where irradiance is constantly 1000W/m2 and the temp is 25 degrees!!
 
Sanyo panels are not part of Photon because they sell due to their high efficiency. People just love this fact and it sells them panels.

If they put their HIT's into photon the odds are that they will not give a better yield per KWp than anything else and very probably will not be near the likes of Siliken and REC at the very top. It's too risky for them.
 
Why do you lot seem to give a damn what PVSOL says? It is meaningless. It's a computer programme that uses manufacturers STC data - this has very little to do with what actually happens in the real world!!

We do not live in a lab where irradiance is constantly 1000W/m2 and the temp is 25 degrees!!

Frankly, your contribution to this forum appears to be less than helpful. I suspect your motivation is on pushing UpSolar panels and your own agenda.

Pv Sol doesn't just rely on STC data and I suspect you have less than no knowledge of how the software works. If you have something insightful to offer then I'd be delighted and very surprised to hear it.
 
Actually Sanyo are one of the few people that actually quote output under NOCT (Nominal Operating Cell Temperature, aka Normal Operating Conditions) if you look at their brochure,

NOCT for the HIT-N240SE10 you'll find amongst all the data that Maximum power (Pmax) is only 185W
with Cells at 44 degrees C and irradiance down at 800W/m2 so much more like real life. Not many other panel manufacturers are prepared to divulge that additional information.
 
Apologies if I was a little short in my previous email however I really don’t see why people are using PVSOL to select their modules. Think what you like about me being on an agenda but here is my logic....

I will try to be more insightful for you BigsSolar…..

I do get your point Worcester RE: NOCT, but this is still just a fixed value, what about when the panel is at -15 and 600W/M2 or +70 and 1300W/m2.

The point is that the operating environment continually changes and it's what happens in real life that is important not what a software programme predicts (incidentally we do actually use PV Sol). You may argue that they have included the manufacturers temperature co-efficient data in their calcs, but this is just temperature, it doesn't factor in the irradiance level variation.

This is why I don’t consider it good practice to go on what a computer model predicts. Surely it’s far, far better to take an independent outdoor field test late Photons to see what actually happens throughout the year in a climate much like ours.

We only install a few types of module one of which is REC and they do divulge NOCT data - I can't comment on many other brands. We do not currently install Up Solar (who actually include NOCT data), but are considering them due to their price, long warranty, photon performance and the fact they use high quality European components.

I would suggest that due to the competitive nature of the PV module market a lot of Western brands will continue to go under. Unfortunately it might be wise getting in with a decent Chinese manufacturer (they do exist) early as they are the ones that can afford to cut module prices and stay in business.

This is not a sales pitch it is a fact.

I stand by my opinion of Sanyo hybrid modules, actually this admittedly limited data from Sheffield Uni backs up what I am saying about yield per kWp. It doesn’t seem any better than the ‘average’ standard pure silicone based module.

Microgeneration Data
 
Apologies if I got your back up BiggsSolar, perhaps I was a little brash. However I do stand by my guns.

Worcester - we mainly install REC and they provide NOCT data, so too do Up Solar who we are considering at the moment (BiggSolar please feel free to think what you like about any ulterior motive).

Whilst NOCT gives an additional benchmark to compare modules it is ultimately still only a snapshot at 44 degrees and 800w/m2. What happens when the temperature is -15 and irradiance 500 w/m2 or conversely temperature 60 degrees and 1300 w/m2?

In addition to including the above, PV Sol may also include the manufactures temperature co efficient but this is just a temperature coefficient at 1000w/m2, it doesn’t really mean much in the real world.

The point I was making is that real world module performance is not easy to model on a computer. Especially when the raw module data is not independent – it’s derived from manufacturers data sheets. So why does everyone get hung up on a computer model?

I would have thought a far, far better way to decide which modules are worth installing is to look at outdoor field data, such as Photon International.

Those who rate Sanyo hybrids may find this data from Sheffield University interesting….

Microgeneration Data

Though admittedly a new study, it basically shows per kWp installed there is little or no difference between monos, polys and hybrids.
 
NOCT data is also published for WINAICO panels.

Picking up on some of the points raised by malibu, there are a number of issues to be considered when choosing panels in addition to spec sheet data. It is important to understand the quality of the product. For example all WINAICO panels are electroluminescently tested before leaving the factory in addition to the standard flash testing. This testing is performed to detect micro cracks.

Mike Doherty
WINACIO
[email protected]
07952 426080
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I was comparing panels I threw together this spreadsheet to compare different panels drop in output with temperature (just based on manufacturers claims of power coefficient / c). Might be of interest (or for comment if I've got something wrong / misunderstood the specs...)
 

Attachments

  • temperature coefficient.jpg
    23.4 KB · Views: 144
Last edited by a moderator:
qtypanelwattkWpPV SolsizeareatheoreticalPV Sol%
efficiencyefficiency
16Sanyo HIT-H250E01250400040501610*8611.38621180.3182.6101.3%
16Trina TSM-DC05 230230368034071650*9921.6368140.5130.192.6%
16Sharp NU-E245J5245392036291652*9941.642088149.2138.192.6%
16Yingli YL-250Wp250400037221650*9901.6335153.0142.493.1%
16Suntech STP250S-20 Wd Plus250400039531655*9911.640105152.4150.698.8%
16WINAICO WSP-240 Wp M6240384038841650*9991.64835145.6147.3101.1%
16Upsolar UP-M230P230368036051640*9921.62688141.4138.598.0%
16Solarworld 240240384038331675*10011.676675143.1142.999.8%
16znshine ZX250(48)MS250400038401575*10821.70415146.7140.896.0%
16REW 230230368037671575*10821.70415135.0138.2102.4%
16BLD Solar Europe BLD250-60M250400037351650x9921.6368152.7142.693.4%
16Suntech PlutoAde-200200320031411580x8081.27664156.7153.898.2%
16Bisol BMO/245245392037361649x9911.634159149.9142.995.3%
16WINAICO WSP-240 Wp P6240384039221665*9991.663335144.3147.4102.1%

Finally got loan of the PV Sol laptop again so more panels added. Note the Suntech PlutoAde-200 was modelled using an SMA 3000TL.
 
Liquidity,
I'd be really grateful if you could add Hyundai HiS S250MG panels to your list and also out of interest if you could also add the Sharp NU-R250 J5 panels.
I am very interested in the Hyundai due to the lack of availability of the Suntech 250s and the Sharp ones seem to pop up although I suspect them to be less efficient than the Hyundais whilst being more expensive.
Also I don't know the difference between Sharp NU-E*** and Sharp NU-R*** series.
Thanks in advance,
and.
 
I'd be really grateful if you could add Hyundai HiS S250MG panels and also the LG 250M1C panels ... trying to keep this excellent tread going!
 
NOCT data is also published for WINAICO panels.

Picking up on some of the points raised by malibu, there are a number of issues to be considered when choosing panels in addition to spec sheet data. It is important to understand the quality of the product. For example all WINAICO panels are electroluminescently tested before leaving the factory in addition to the standard flash testing. This testing is performed to detect micro cracks.

Mike Doherty
WINACIO
[email protected]
07952 426080

Isn't this a standard test for MCS certified panels amongst many other tests prior to release?
 
Are yes good old marketing, like Kraft Slices, once they'd said "Pint of Milk in every slice" everyone believed them, - that's what all cheese takes, they just said it!
 
Flashing testing is a MCS requirements, but unless I am mistaken electroluminescent testing isn't. Happy for someone with more knowledge to confirm or otherwise.
 

Reply to another perspective on comparing different brands of panels in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

S
I am in the process of getting quotes for a PV system of up to 4kW for a house located 35 miles SW of London, and have been looking at various...
Replies
11
Views
7K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock