Any advice / help welcome on this

Daytona955 · Feb 12, 2011

Having been a qualified mechanical engineer for 23 years ( apprentice trained with BTEC quals etc ) and having had enough of being stuck in a factory i decided to retrain as an electrical engineer. My background was hands on and engineering already so ( being old school and not a believer in short cut courses ) thought my current skills gave me enough background to go this route and went for it ( i know what people think of these courses, im the same in my own trade). In the last year ive completed c&g2330 level 2 and level 3 , about to take part P next week then the 17th edition exam. However i still have c&g 2356 NVQ3 to complete. Ive emailed a couple local electricians offering my services for free taking the experience as payment but no response! So am considering going self employed around my current job as Napit say i can self cert with them as long as i complete the 2356 within a year. One thing i cant seem to clarify anywhere is do i even need to join an organisation or can i just send the paperwork into the building regs people with the quals i already have or do i need the 2356 first? Its driving me nuts , apparently i can legally call myself an electrician now but when can i say fully qualified?

Plus any advice on going self employed or where i can find it most welcomed. I wouldnt even know what to charge people ! Also any knowledge of national companies that take in people like me ( lets face it at the moment i could be moulded to work how the employer likes right now ) please give me a pointer. If theres anywhere that hires out megger testers that would be quite handy aswell looking at the price of them

Many thanks and HELLO new here...hopefully be taking part in more advanced forums in a couple years

SirKit Breaker · Feb 12, 2011

Lots of questions Daytona, and no doubt you will get lots of answers. Firstly the thing that stands out is "YOU ARE TAKING YOUR PART P" If someone is trying to stuff you and take money to put you on a Part P course/qualification the dont buy it. Part P is a building regulation, you cant get a qualification for a building reg.
Continue with your on going training, get the 17th edition, and try your hand at C&G 2391, but look into this before jumping in, its a very involved course and exam, and even for the very experienced spark it is not a walk in the park. Keep plugging away at local companies, but be prepared to spend days digging walls out etc before you get a chance to wire anything up. Regarding self employment, it is hard work but very rewarding, and you wont get established over night, try work around your existing job. i know of some very good lads, well qualified and loads of experience who are struggling to get work.

Do some searches on the forum, it has more info on all that you ask then you will know what to do with.

Cheers.......Howard

Daytona955 · Feb 12, 2011

Thanks Howard for that. The part P was thrown in free and the course was with OLCI. I have to sit a 40 min online test at their centre so now im totally baffled and a bit miffed i may have been sat here revising all day for nothing :S Ill look around the forums but still baffled as to how qualified i am and whether i can self cert without someone like Napit. Ive been told the 2391 is a nightmare and to be honest i know im not up to it yet. My brains blown with all the inspect and test to fill out the paperwork and cert. A friend from the course whos been an electricians mate for 16 years was nearly in tears with a 2 day exam we had on it

John

SMB · Feb 12, 2011

The 2391 is not really a nightmare mate.

You just need to understand GN3.

Understand that booklet and you will be sorted. There is loads of stuff to help on this web-site about the 2391 exam. There are also some really helpful, and informed people.

I wish you all the best.

Daytona955 · Feb 13, 2011

Thanks mate, ill have to get that book and sort that exam. Did look quite handy. Well its a vague thing looking around on forums as to what is qualified but i think the biggie is experience. However i did read theres a change in law coming up in june this year increasing the quals you need to practice as a sparky, nvq3 needed i believe but read a forum on it and noone could agree on what it all meant but i think ill get --- in gear and join Napit or similar ( whos the easiest on you when you have your assessment?

) . Thanks Guys.

solo2771 · Feb 13, 2011

To kinda dissagree with sircuit breaker there is a part P qualification through C%G but it's only a basic course on the buiding regs and how to use them it does NOT give you part P self cert status as you still have to join one of the organisations ie ELECSA, NAPPIT, ect ect.
Paul

nickblake · Feb 13, 2011

Im backing howard on this the Part P Cand G course just covers the basics to realy understand the principles you need your 2382 17th edition and even better the 2391 i dont think you'll stand much chance of getting into a trade body with just the building regs course i may be wrong , but to get into a trade body you need to have a good working knowlage as well as experiance to to me no point in being in a trade body if you cant self certify just my opinion

SirKit Breaker · Feb 13, 2011

solo2771 said:
To kinda dissagree with sircuit breaker there is a part P qualification through C%G but it's only a basic course on the buiding regs and how to use them it does NOT give you part P self cert status as you still have to join one of the organisations ie ELECSA, NAPPIT, ect ect.
Paul

I know what you mean Solo, but the point i am trying to make is that any so called qualification paid for, for Part P is a waste of money. Any training establishment will sell a course on anything as long as people get suckered into paying the fees.

If an Electrician, Part P registered or not, designs and constructs any installation to the requirements of BS7671 then it will be compliant to the Building regulations, because Part P which is a statutory document states Electrical Installation must be to the requirements of BS7671. so therefore how can it be justified to pay for an additional course for part P?

In my opinion anyone who wants to get their feet into our world would be far better off getting the 17th qualification, doing either the 2391 or the similar single phase course, and instead of wasting money on something totally unnecessary spend it on useful stuff like GN3 and test gear.

Cheers.........Howard

solo2771 · Feb 13, 2011

SirKit Breaker said:
I know what you mean Solo, but the point i am trying to make is that any so called qualification paid for, for Part P is a waste of money. Any training establishment will sell a course on anything as long as people get suckered into paying the fees.

If an Electrician, Part P registered or not, designs and constructs any installation to the requirements of BS7671 then it will be compliant to the Building regulations, because Part P which is a statutory document states Electrical Installation must be to the requirements of BS7671. so therefore how can it be justified to pay for an additional course for part P?

In my opinion anyone who wants to get their feet into our world would be far better off getting the 17th qualification, doing either the 2391 or the similar single phase course, and instead of wasting money on something totally unnecessary spend it on useful stuff like GN3 and test gear.

Cheers.........Howard

Yes I totally agree

Daytona955 · Feb 14, 2011

I wont bother panicking too much about the part P exam then guys. However will do the 17th and later, with the aid of guidance notes 3 will have a crack at the 2391. If anyone can shed some light on this new law coming in id be grateful. Something to do with having to do a level 3 to be able to practice unless already with Napit or similar. Unsure if thats nvq3 or c&g2330 level 3 or similar. Im reading that a lot of people havent even bothered doing their nvq 3 so now im even wondering if thats worth filling out. Theres quite a bit on there ill probably never do! Ill be phoning Napit this week and will ask them what its all about if noones heard this one and post my findings. Cheers.

SirKit Breaker · Feb 15, 2011

I cant see any of the part P scheme providers upping the ante and asking for higher qualifications to join up. They would lose a fortune. ALL of them are in it for one thing and one thing only OUR CASH, so they will never make it more difficult for themselves to get it. There are a lot of good sparks who have come up through the ranks by experience alone, and I cant see the NIC or Elecsa et al, turning round and saying "ere mate you havent got this or that, so we dont want your £500 a year anymore".

I maybe wrong, but i doubt it.

Cheers....Howard

malcolmsanford · Feb 15, 2011

Daytona955 said:
I wont bother panicking too much about the part P exam then guys. However will do the 17th and later, with the aid of guidance notes 3 will have a crack at the 2391. If anyone can shed some light on this new law coming in id be grateful. Something to do with having to do a level 3 to be able to practice unless already with Napit or similar. Unsure if thats nvq3 or c&g2330 level 3 or similar. Im reading that a lot of people havent even bothered doing their nvq 3 so now im even wondering if thats worth filling out. Theres quite a bit on there ill probably never do! Ill be phoning Napit this week and will ask them what its all about if noones heard this one and post my findings. Cheers.

It looks like it will be the C&G course 2356 which according to some can be done in less than a year to 2 years. To be frank the industry is trying to improve the standards and like all new things this new course will have to be started and then a better assement of it can be had. Look up a forum member called Widdler, he does a lot of training and he will give you a better handle on things.

When you apply to be a sole trader with a scheme there are normally 2 areas in a full scope area. One is the company owner or name which as a lone trader is you, the other is the designated person who will sign off work or a QS. again as a sole trader that will be you.

As from June the ECA have announced that anyone that wishes to become a QS will have to have level 3 NVQ qualifications in electrical installation the C&G 2356 and also in testing and inspection C&G 2391.

Again this is my take on it, I may not be 100% accurate, but again I don't think I'm far off. I'm sure the schemes are trying to get a way round this, as they can not afford to loose the non Level 3 guys coming into the industry as they are cash cows, it is still a developing situation.