Blackberg LED lamps?

[hookedonfishing]

Alrite fellas,

I am a rather passive member these days, but from time to time I bump into situations where I need some serious advice from the forum.

A few years ago I used to do plenty of installations with LED bulbs (mostly gu10 spots), I tried different brands, from philips to more unknown lamps. In the end there was always the same problem, in 6 months time I got calls back from customers telling me that the bulbs had started flickering or broke. I eventually rejected all requests for LED's and have installed halogens since.

Current problem:
I am in a situation where one of my biggest customer with over 200 gu10 fittings is INSISTING that I use LED's in this installation.
He wants me install bulbs from a brand called blackberg. Now as I told above, I have a very bad experience with LED lamps, but in this case I can't find a way around the situation without losing this customer

Please help:

• What is your current overall experience in LED bulbs in recent years. Has it developed, is the technology yet reliable?
• Have you used the mentioned Blackberg bulbs? Please share your experiences.

I have asked all my local Elec wholesalers and cant find the blackberg lamps anywhere.
I have only been given the link by my customer to webstore amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...iveASIN=B00CM9JGF2&linkCode=as2&tag=fr1337-21 but I would rather buy them from them locally (Essex/London).

• Would you use these bulbs
• Where can I find these bulbs. Please provide any links and feel free to recommend wholesalers
• Have you used amazon before for elec shopping and do I get a VAT invoice?

I'm lost an in a hurry to make a decision with these bulbs. They look decent but I need your help.
I will be working with the customer tomorrow, I'll return late next night back to this thread. :banghead:

Thank you very very much.

 

[Resu]

I haven't used these (or heard of them) so can't rate them. But at the end of the day that's what the client wants so I don't understand your problem? If you've explained the risks and he decides to go ahead anyway and they start failing, it's his own fault! I personally think they look quite decent.

We use Amazon for a few electrical purchases particularly certain lighting items and tools. Regarding the VAT invoices, they provide one for items bought from themselves but won't for third party sellers. You should check that the seller is VAT registered and will provide you with the necessary invoice before purchase.

We use a mixture of Danic and HiSpec lamps and have for a while without major issue (1 or 2 duds now and again).

 

[Richard Burns]

This company appears to be new and only sells that lamp and only for the last month, the specs seem OK and the price not too expensive (but maybe quality?)
You can only let the customer know that all failures are down to him, you will get replacements but at his cost as you cannot warranty customer specified items.

(had written more but lost the post)

 

[hookedonfishing]

...We use Amazon for a few electrical purchases particularly certain lighting items and tools. Regarding the VAT invoices, they provide one for items bought from themselves but won't for third party sellers. You should check that the seller is VAT registered and will provide you with the necessary invoice before purchase...

Resu thank you for your precise reply. I searched a bit and found a VAT number from their info page. I will contact them tomorrow and ask if they provide VAT invoices, will post the answer to this thread.

This company appears to be new and only sells that lamp and only for the last month, the specs seem OK and the price not too expensive (but maybe quality?)
You can only let the customer know that all failures are down to him, you will get replacements but at his cost as you cannot warranty customer specified items.

(had written more but lost the post)

Richard thank you very much for your reply and views. Okay so they have just been released..so they are not probably in Elec wholesale yet. Richard I have probably read hundreds of your posts and I admire your experience from the Field. I wish you could re-write what you lost. Your wisdom is worth more than anything.

You are both correct, I should just do as he says, but he strongly keeps asking “do I suggest them”, even though he obviously has chosen to use them. Just trying to get views on this product, because I felt I lack the info of working with LED´s since I stopped using them.

forgot to tell about the installation:

• Plenty of motion light sensors
• A few light level sensor
• 80% of the gu10´s recessed, rest on rotatable tracks
• No light dimmers used

 

[Richard Burns]

I was only going to say as you probably saw from my link, that the company has only been in existence for one year and only sells that one lamp and only through Amazon. It is odd but useful that they are GB registered for VAT (despite being Finnish). This means that one cannot give any recommendation, but you could change this by testing them!
The lamp has reasonable specification, but the colour rendering index is not very high so be careful if you are using them where this may be a problem, the energy efficiency is about on par with most lamps, could be better but not a problem and should give a decent light similar to halogen. The size is a good match for the halogens.

One cannot see inside to the circuitry so you cannot comment on that, but at that price they should be OK (! no guarantees).

In general for LED lamps they improving all the time, the prices are still too high to be sensibly viable but this is coming down fast as well, reliability has improved a lot, I generally find the dimmable ones are better because they need the circuitry to be good to be able to dim. At the moment there are so many inconsistent lamps about that it can be very hard to compare them, beam angle, brightness, colour, wattage, physical size.
Unless you buy the very cheap lamps now I would expect reasonable results most of the time, there are always some failures, but you just need to figure that in.

Thank you for the praise, not sure it is totally warranted, but thank you anyway.

 

[hookedonfishing]

...It is odd but useful that they are GB registered for VAT (despite being Finnish)... This means that one cannot give any recommendation, but you could change this by testing them!...

I have just ordered 250 pieces of the blackberg leds, I will keep about 20 pieces for myself and test them in my house. I will do as you suggested Richard, and I'll be probably the first person from the trade to review them. I will post pictures and info in the following days. I have also contacted then through Amazon to ask about VAT invoices.

One cannot see inside to the circuitry so you cannot comment on that, but at that price they should be OK (! no guarantees).

I will open one of the bulbs up and take good photos of the circuitry and post them here.

Thank you for the praise, not sure it is totally warranted, but thank you anyway.

You are welcome, well deserve praise.

I will be back with more info. If someone has any thoughts in the meanwhile. Please feel free to share them!

 

[hookedonfishing]

Hi again fellas,

I am back as I promised, and this time with some goodies.. I might have taken Richards suggestion "why don't you test them" a bit too seriously. But I think it is about time I give something back to this fantastic community.

I have just ordered 250 pieces of the blackberg leds...

I signed and received the mentioned LED bulbs earlier today from Amazon. I chose express shipping instead of the available free shipping, so I received my order extra fast.

We use Amazon for a few electrical purchases particularly certain lighting items and tools...

I did not believe you at first, but the ordering process from Amazon was very smart. I set the billing address to match my company details, and chose the delivery address to be my client/the site. I was preparing the wiring for the GU10´s and just opened the door and received all the lamps I needed for the project. I saved a trip to the wholesaler, I'm getting fairly excited of this E-shopping.

Long story short, here is one of the many boxes I received:



Closeup of the LED bulb's packaging. Very smart packaging in my opinion and very effortless to open, which is important for me when I need to open +200. There was no need to carve the product out of it's packaging, I just had to remove the top lid, and remove the inner lid (which seems to be designed to keep the product securely packed).


I had only brief moment to take a look at the product, and did not have the time to test it properly. But so far I'm very impressed. Sturdy and robust product.

I will return hopefully tomorrow with more pictures of the product. I will also want to open up the product and look inside the bulb (circuit, drivers, wiring etc)


I hope you will this this useful =)

ILL BE BACK *Arnold Schwarzenegger voice*


EDIT: Forgot to mention that I requested separately a VAT invoice from the Amazon seller, and got it through E-mail in PDF form before I got the products. They indeed are VAT registered in England. Convenient!

 

[Resu]

Thanks for the follow up, be sure to let us know how you get on!

 

[driverman]

This a very basic question really. How do you work out how many fitting are requires for each room and where to site them? Is there a formular for area of room?

 

[Richard Burns]

There are numerous ways of preparing lighting for a Room and they can get very complicated.
If you are providing a general lighting level in a domestic room then you space lamps out about 1m apart, depending on joist location.
This is for lamps providing approx illumination of 50W halogens.
However this is only a basic rule of thumb and there are considerations of type of wall, type of floor, colour of ceiling, light intensity required, work to be done in the room, recommended light levels in various situations, reflectivity of surfaces, prevention of glare. It could go on and on.

 

[Amp David]

Those lamps are 3mm longer than a standard GU10 halogen so hope the fittings you're using don't have a fixed lamp holder.

 

[hookedonfishing]

Evening fellas,

I have returned with a product review I spent 3 nights doing!

As Richard suggested above, I needed to take a closer look at the LED light bulb and its circuitry:

1. I started by unscrewing the "sealing ring" from the top of the bulb. It had been sealed very tightly and I am sure I ended my warranty period when I forced the seal open with a screwdriver and a hammer
2. I removed the lense holder and the lense, and finally saw the LED light source, which looked good!
3. I wanted to see behind the light source access rest of the electrical components, so I forced my tools under the circuit bord holding the LED's. (At this point I realised I needed to sacrifice this LED bulb for a greater good, because it was not going to stay in usable condition after my treatment) I forced my tools under and brutally lifted the circuit board and destroyed the cables connected to the LED's and ruined the thermal paste and the hot glue
4. I detached rest of the electrical components, that were found inside bulb. It took a long time to remove protective tapes and pastes from the components, but finally I got everything cleaned up so one could see the components. I was fairly pleased in what I saw. Everything looked good!

Here is the result of breaking the bulb in pieces:


Comparing The LED bulb with Halogen bulb. 3mm difference in height, as Resu mentioned above. After opening the bulb I understand why there is a 3mm difference; the components require the extra space.


I decided to make a video review about the product. I am dedicating it to this forum and its great users. Thank you for giving me so much during these years, I hope you will find this useful.

Remember to click the "gear icon" at the bottom right of the video to change the video quality into HD (1080p) !

[video=youtube;9Hfks8Vks7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hfks8Vks7A&hd=1[/video]

 

[Richard Burns]

Thank you for the comprehensive feed back on these lamps, it is just the sort of thing you need to be able to make a reasonable assesment of any lamp.
It certainly makes it much less fraught for any one else purchasing the lamps. Thank you being an "early adopter".

 

[hookedonfishing]

Thank you Richard. I enjoyed this project quite a bit. I had always wanted to make video reviews of tech products, but never really had the audience to make it worth my trouble. The quality of the product was a pleasant surprise. I would say I feel again comfortable with LEDs, but I might still use halogen in some occasions. Depends what the customer wants, really doesn't it.

 

[Resu]

Excellent stuff mate, you've certainly got me sold now! You should be on commission

 

[hookedonfishing]

Cheers Resu :builder:
A big thanks goes to you too!
I have installed about 50 of the bulbs already. I'll take pictures of the installation and upload them here later on.

 

[robbo_luvs_pies]

Are you going to post the pictures??