Brexit. We’re out!

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And we have only just stopped paying the US for the same, or have we?

I wonder what would happen if we just stopped paying out to all the other countries that we supposedly have commitments too and kept the monies to support our own country, the US pays less into the global economy in foreign aid per person than any other country in the world.
 
fullfact.org

This comparison between Brexit’s impact and the financial crisis is flawed - Full Fact

Government analysis estimated GDP and wages will be lower following Brexit than if the UK remained in the EU. It’s wrong to say the analysis says GDP and wages will fall, as Chuka Umunna claimed.
fullfact.org fullfact.org

As stated here, they’re all predictions. Not facts. It may be likely that would actually happen but it does irritate me when people try to pass opinion/predictions off as facts.
 
baldelectrician said:
Nissan production halted, this will also be the fault of the EU
The UK had years to employ enough staff and implement a functional software system to make the border crossings less hassle but didn't
Oh and the French are currently being 'lenient' in implementing the rules but will become more strict soon.

www.theguardian.com

Nissan forced to shut UK production line owing to supply delays

Temporary shutdown at Sunderland plant caused by disruption to supply chain during pandemic
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
I think three things have coincided to destroy a lot of motor manufacture in the UK. Covid, Brexit and re-tooling for EV production. Those looking to continue to export to EU will weigh up extra costs and move. I believe the Japanese are going to be moving manufacturing back to Japan. Be interesting to know from anyone who has good contacts in the industry?
What about that keen brexteer billionaire that’s decided to base his new land rover plant in France instead of Wales?
 
I agree that many are estimates but the UK is slowly becoming less relevant

The US has the UK as a 'bridge' between the US and the EU, this no longer happens and Ireland slots neatly in to that vacancy as the new US president is a Irish republican.

The full impact of the brexit will not come to peoples eyes for a month or two but the costs will mount- for example the Royal Mail now impose a £12 customs charge

Why haven’t I been charged for other goods I’ve received?​

Prior to the 1 January 2021 items from the EU were not subject to customs charges. The decision to raise VAT or customs duties or not is a matter for HM Revenue & Customs.
 
andyb said:
I'd be interested to know how they're being ruthless Pete, from what I can see they're just implementing the rules and regs that we agreed to in the brexit deal.
Most of the problems are caused on this side of the border by our own border control.
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They are just looking out for there interests. they wanted the best deal they could get, we wanted the best we could get.

In business sometimes you do need to be ruthless especially when both sides have so much to loose.

Europe has a lot to potentially loose, if other european countries choose to go the same way as us. So ruthlessness in business is fine its not a criticism.

we also had to be ruthless in our negotiations and got the best deal we where ever going to get.
yes it’s not ideal, but we did it.
 
I'm getting an allotment soon; how do I go about exporting my spuds to Ireland? I'm hoping to grow some strawberries in early summer, if anybody's interested. ?

People these days expect all sorts of fruit & veg, at all times of the year. We should go back to times past, when we ate only seasonal fruit & veg. And eating too much meat is bad for you, don't you know. We should eat more game meat; as a kid my mum made loads of meals using local rabbit. We could get the Scots to start breading & shooting more Haggis, that might help a bit!
 
We have an uncertain future with Brexit. I voted to remain, but that’s in the past. Let’s just get on with it and move on. This United Kingdom has been able to survive on its own in the past (not being part of another Union), I expect it will be able to do so in the future.
 
littlespark said:
I do believe everyone that voted to leave thought it was going to be a seamless transition. Nothing would change, we would just be out the EU.

Naive? Possibly.... Lack of information? Probably.
Click to expand...
I never believed it would be easy exiting europe.
Resistance by Europe and our own parliament was inevitable. They would try to stop it or block it or be as aukward as possible Because deep down they do not believe in democracy.

after all europe is an un elected body so democracy is the last thing they want.

Look what happened when democracy raised its ugly head. We voted leave.
 
we were conned into joining in the first place. we were told that trade with EU would be good. no import tariffs. so why did the price of smokes and booze not drop to EU levels? nope. same import tax as before. now we are out, same as before. and that's not to mention the EU's policy of letting food rot to inflate prices and pay bone idle french farmers with 1 cow and a goat to sit on their arses and do nothing
 
littlespark said:
I do believe everyone that voted to leave thought it was going to be a seamless transition. Nothing would change, we would just be out the EU.

Naive? Possibly.... Lack of information? Probably.
Click to expand...
Yep, my main concern was the economic model and the thought of subsidising an ever increasing number of nations joining plus a flood of immigrants. What I didn’t understand was that we already had an advantage sat outside the Euro and as a sovereign state we also had control of our borders and chose not to. Still, as the economy crashes, no one will want to come here now anyway. ?
 
LastManOnline said:
First, I don, t do politics, but sorry to see you all go, (that includes those who wanted to and those who did, nt)

Second, when the spuds are ready to go, just give me a shout. I like 'em "floury" by the way!!!
Click to expand...
prefer mine as chips to go with sirloin. maris pipers are the best, but could cope with king eddies at a push.
 
littlespark said:
Do you know how hard it is to breed pedigree haggis?

That’s why there’s only a short hunting season (January) and we only have enough to feed the Scots.
Click to expand...

People forget that this breed of Haggis lay Scotch eggs, which is a delicacy in many pubs.

Who will protect the status of the haggis now?

In the EU we had protection for this as well as Cornish pasties and Stornoway black pudding etc
 
baldelectrician said:
People forget that this breed of Haggis lay Scotch eggs, which is a delicacy in many pubs.

Who will protect the status of the haggis now?

In the EU we had protection for this as well as Cornish pasties and Stornoway black pudding etc
Click to expand...
fair comment, but atl least the frogggies and spanioles won't be allowed to poach your haggis any more. you can have the Scottish navy patrolling the haggis grounds. (at least after they done trying to find Nessie in Loch whatever).
 
littlespark said:
I do believe everyone that voted to leave thought it was going to be a seamless transition. Nothing would change, we would just be out the EU.

Naive? Possibly.... Lack of information? Probably.
Click to expand...
I think you have a total misconception of the majority of leave voters based on the media's portrayal of a selective few...

Other than a few small hiccoughs which were predicted and expected, can you tell me what so far is evidence Brexit was a big mistake...

Maybe the fact that over 90% of the scaremongering predictions of what would happen have not, the fact we got a deal we were told was impossible, maybe the fact we now have full access to the Single market without the crippling membership fee or the miles of red tape we had to follow as part of the membership rules.

I post this on the day Japan invest billions in the UK car industry and battery technology plants because it see's the UK's new position in the world as a positive and bright future, not to mention that the UK had 1600+ requests from EU companies to move to the UK or open offices up here, think about the jobs and tax revenue for that.
All I still see is the mainstream media clutching at any tiny negative story to justify 4yrs of biased and they are simply falling flat on their faces, several MSM companies hanging around France and Dover post brexit to announce they were spot on only to find thing srunning smoothly, non existent queues to report on...

You can tell the desperation to make it look like a bad decision when the headlines are about a overzealous customs official taking the ---- out of EU rules and taking pack lunches away, a issue that was resolved in a day BTW or the couple who were not allowed on a flight, turned out to be incorrect details, a error on the airlines side...

Please list me all these negative and I will happily list the positive like our Exit from Erasmus which has save the UK over 250million a year and instead on 10,000 students it helped we set up a scheme called Turin that helps 35,000 to educate across the globe not just the EU and we are still 200 million better off... exactly where was that money going originally ?
 
darkwood said:
I think you have a total misconception of the majority of leave voters based on the media's portrayal of a selective few...

Other than a few small hiccoughs which were predicted and expected, can you tell me what so far is evidence Brexit was a big mistake...

Maybe the fact that over 90% of the scaremongering predictions of what would happen have not, the fact we got a deal we were told was impossible, maybe the fact we not have full access to the Single market without the crippling membership fee or the miles of red tape we had to follow as part of the membership rules.

I post this on the day Japan invest billions in the UK car industry and battery technology plants because it see's the UK's new position in the world as a positive and bright future, not to mention that the UK had 1600+ requests from EU companies to move to the UK or open offices up here, think about the jobs and tax revenue for that.
All I still see is the mainstream media clutching at any tiny negative story to justify 4yrs of biased and they are simply falling flat on their faces, several MSM companies hanging around France and Dover post brexit to announce they were spot on only to find thing srunning smoothly, non existent queues to report on...

You can tell the desperation to make it look like a bad decision when the headlines are about a overzealous customs official taking the ---- out of EU rules and taking pack lunches away, a issue that was resolved in a day BTW or the couple who were not allowed on a flight, turned out to be incorrect details, a error on the airlines side...

Please list me all these negative and I will happily list the positive like our Exit from Erasmus which has save the UK over 250million a year and instead on 10,000 students it helped we set up a scheme called Turin that helps 35,000 to educate across the globe not just the EU and we are still 200 million better off... exactly where was that money going originally ?
Click to expand...
can't say i'm up to date with all that, but great to see some +ve points re brexit. i voted leave, same as i voted against the buggers back in c. 1972. we are a nation, not a subservient state. like Poland, and a few others, was to USSR back in the day. the EU has become today's version of the USSR. corrupt money grabbing bar stewards. good riddance.
 
darkwood said:
I think you have a total misconception of the majority of leave voters based on the media's portrayal of a selective few...

Other than a few small hiccoughs which were predicted and expected, can you tell me what so far is evidence Brexit was a big mistake...

Maybe the fact that over 90% of the scaremongering predictions of what would happen have not, the fact we got a deal we were told was impossible, maybe the fact we now have full access to the Single market without the crippling membership fee or the miles of red tape we had to follow as part of the membership rules.

I post this on the day Japan invest billions in the UK car industry and battery technology plants because it see's the UK's new position in the world as a positive and bright future, not to mention that the UK had 1600+ requests from EU companies to move to the UK or open offices up here, think about the jobs and tax revenue for that.
All I still see is the mainstream media clutching at any tiny negative story to justify 4yrs of biased and they are simply falling flat on their faces, several MSM companies hanging around France and Dover post brexit to announce they were spot on only to find thing srunning smoothly, non existent queues to report on...

You can tell the desperation to make it look like a bad decision when the headlines are about a overzealous customs official taking the ---- out of EU rules and taking pack lunches away, a issue that was resolved in a day BTW or the couple who were not allowed on a flight, turned out to be incorrect details, a error on the airlines side...

Please list me all these negative and I will happily list the positive like our Exit from Erasmus which has save the UK over 250million a year and instead on 10,000 students it helped we set up a scheme called Turin that helps 35,000 to educate across the globe not just the EU and we are still 200 million better off... exactly where was that money going originally ?
Click to expand...
Darkwood, as usual you make an interesting, but far too long a post to be able to respond to in a way that would be succinct and easy to read without boring people senseless.
So I’ll just respond to one of your points, but by all means I’m happy to respond to others if you want, also I do not disagree with all you say.

Erasmus, this is an excellent scheme that has been taken advantage of by British students nigh on 30 years. For most students it was their first time working or studying abroad and is a fantastic opportunity for the youngsters to gain knowledge, make friends and take in the culture of Europe.
There was a financial benefit to this country as visiting students contributed over £400 million to the economy. So although there was a cost it was not as straightforward as you suggest.
Whilst I’m sure the Turing project will also be a good thing, it has one major flaw from what I can see and that’s distance. America and Australia are a long way away, a one or two hour hop over to the continent is a bit different to a 24 flight to Australia, and for sure, it will be a bit more expensive than a £30 flight to Milan for example.
This is a concern because working class students from poorer families will be far less likely to take up Turing because of this. Of course kids from richer families will be far better placed to take advantage.

I’d better stop now, I’ve already waffled for too long.
 
telectrix said:
can't say i'm up to date with all that, but great to see some +ve points re brexit. i voted leave, same as i voted against the buggers back in c. 1972. we are a nation, not a subservient state. like Poland, and a few others, was to USSR back in the day. the EU has become today's version of the USSR. corrupt money grabbing bar stewards. good riddance.
Click to expand...
Tel. I have to disagree. We were part of a group, a trading block and had a say in how it operated. We have had 40 odd years of anti - EU propaganda. We are now under the control of an extremely corrupt government and manipulated press. We’ve cut our nose off to spite our face. If you want to go back to power cuts, high inflation and Dagenham dustbins the fair enough. We’ve now got 20+ years or more to negotiate back to where we were. Name one single advantage of Brexit?
 
andyb said:
Darkwood, as usual you make an interesting, but far too long a post to be able to respond to in a way that would be succinct and easy to read without boring people senseless.
So I’ll just respond to one of your points, but by all means I’m happy to respond to others if you want, also I do not disagree with all you say.

Erasmus, this is an excellent scheme that has been taken advantage of by British students nigh on 30 years. For most students it was their first time working or studying abroad and is a fantastic opportunity for the youngsters to gain knowledge, make friends and take in the culture of Europe.
There was a financial benefit to this country as visiting students contributed over £400 million to the economy. So although there was a cost it was not as straightforward as you suggest.
Whilst I’m sure the Turing project will also be a good thing, it has one major flaw from what I can see and that’s distance. America and Australia are a long way away, a one or two hour hop over to the continent is a bit different to a 24 flight to Australia, and for sure, it will be a bit more expensive than a £30 flight to Milan for example.
This is a concern because working class students from poorer families will be far less likely to take up Turing because of this. Of course kids from richer families will be far better placed to take advantage.

I’d better stop now, I’ve already waffled for too long.
Click to expand...
You are correct, I have a bad habit of writing an essay simply because I think and write fast.

With regards to Erasmus, you make some goods points but fail in my mind to appreciate that the Turin scheme still allows access to Europe like the Erasmus has 25,000 more students to benefit and consequently the Economy from this will be stimulated to an estimated 1.5billion as opposed to 400million, you can choose your destination which opens the field to many more subjects and studies.
I'll reiterate that just to be a member of Erasmus was 250million a year then we had to fund 10,000 students upto 4k for studies, we are effectively saving 200 million, opening the opportunities to global studies and thus expanding on subject that can be taken given there are many fields of science and job opportunities that are not reflected in EU student opportunities.

Erasmus was a major angle the remainers used expressing our students are going to lose out massively and most of the MSM played that narrative, here we are with a very different outcome, in fact 3 fold better +.
 
FatAlan said:
Tel. I have to disagree. We were part of a group, a trading block and had a say in how it operated. We have had 40 odd years of anti - EU propaganda. We are now under the control of an extremely corrupt government and manipulated press. We’ve cut our nose off to spite our face. If you want to go back to power cuts, high inflation and Dagenham dustbins the fair enough. We’ve now got 20+ years or more to negotiate back to where we were. Name one single advantage of Brexit?
Click to expand...

Blimey Alan, you've made some claims there. Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I'm not sure about the power cuts, inflation and Dagenham dustbin claims. I also don't think we will be going back into the EU, although I'm sure we will be applying to rejoin the single market relatively soon as well as the customs union.

As for naming a single advantage of brexit, I can't, at least not a tangible one. But it's what we voted for, so there we have it.
 
darkwood said:
You are correct, I have a bad habit of writing an essay simply because I think and write fast.

With regards to Erasmus, you make some goods points but fail in my mind to appreciate that the Turin scheme still allows access to Europe like the Erasmus has 25,000 more students to benefit and consequently the Economy from this will be stimulated to an estimated 1.5billion as opposed to 400million, you can choose your destination which opens the field to many more subjects and studies.
I'll reiterate that just to be a member of Erasmus was 250million a year then we had to fund 10,000 students upto 4k for studies, we are effectively saving 200 million, opening the opportunities to global studies and thus expanding on subject that can be taken given there are many fields of science and job opportunities that are not reflected in EU student opportunities.

Erasmus was a major angle the remainers used expressing our students are going to lose out massively and most of the MSM played that narrative, here we are with a very different outcome, in fact 3 fold better +.
Click to expand...
Erasmus was never really threatened Dave, in fact Johnson said himself that we would not come out of Erasmus, he lied.
It’s the same as all the Brexit 'benefits’ not real. Yes of course students can still study in European universities, but it’s now not a right and requires visas and other hoops to jump through. Also they have obviously lost the EU erasmus funding.
Also the argument you make re still being able to study in Europe was always the case with American, Australian and other countries universities.

Sad to say, our students have missed out massively, it's a real shame. I know you disagree with this, we'll have to see how Turing turns out, hopefully well.
 
andyb said:
Blimey Alan, you've made some claims there. Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I'm not sure about the power cuts, inflation and Dagenham dustbin claims. I also don't think we will be going back into the EU, although I'm sure we will be applying to rejoin the single market relatively soon as well as the customs union.

As for naming a single advantage of brexit, I can't, at least not a tangible one. But it's what we voted for, so there we have it.
Click to expand...
Yes, made after a few beers, just to emphasise that all wasn’t rosey prior to joining the EU. ?
 
Brexit is like escaping from The Borg after years of assimilation. Yippee.
 
pirate said:
It will be interesting to revisit this thread in a year from now, and see what's what...
Click to expand...
Agree. We have a certain little COVID issue that is muddying the waters at present and I can see it taking a few years for the economy to adjust. Certainly, I can see a lot more home working becoming the norm.
 
Paignton pete said:
I never believed it would be easy exiting europe.
Resistance by Europe and our own parliament was inevitable. They would try to stop it or block it or be as aukward as possible Because deep down they do not believe in democracy.

after all europe is an un elected body so democracy is the last thing they want.

Look what happened when democracy raised its ugly head. We voted leave.
Click to expand...
Paignton Pete, why do you say Europe is an unelected body?. I could have sworn we voted, along with the other EU Nations to elect euro MP's every 4 or 5 years.
Beaurocratic quite possibly but unelected no.
 
mattg4321 said:
Source for that ‘fact’?

Or is it a prediction dreamt up some pro eu quango?
Click to expand...

When it comes to economic bad news Brexit will be treated like Covid is to medical bad news.

There are too many vested interests in the media, politics and academia to let Brexit even break even, let alone succeed.

Whinging lefties can't take losing.
 
andyb said:
Erasmus was never really threatened Dave, in fact Johnson said himself that we would not come out of Erasmus, he lied.
It’s the same as all the Brexit 'benefits’ not real. Yes of course students can still study in European universities, but it’s now not a right and requires visas and other hoops to jump through. Also they have obviously lost the EU erasmus funding.
Also the argument you make re still being able to study in Europe was always the case with American, Australian and other countries universities.

Sad to say, our students have missed out massively, it's a real shame. I know you disagree with this, we'll have to see how Turing turns out, hopefully well.
Click to expand...
Of course again you are right that we were able to study in other nations as part of Erasmus but that was simply a small handful outside of the European Block and not any of the major Nations like Australia, America, Canada etc, Turin allows students to choose their preference globally and then apply for the grant, Erasmus was restricted to mainly European countries and a few neighboring ones with several outside of this like Israel and Egypt.
Erasmus only gave 15,000 in total opportunities and that is the total for all the EU members, Turin allows 35,000 UK students with larger grants of up to £10,000 not the 4k cap of Erasmus.
On the face of it no matter how you look at it, Turin is vastly better and saves 200million for the UK, it doesn't limit where you can study and it allows a greater grant for a vastly larger group.
Unless Turin somehow collapses then I see no really strong argument against it as a comparison.

On your other point, Yes Boris said we wouldn't leave Erasmus but the EU played dirty and was trying to force us to pay huge amounts to access research funds which included erasmus access, they basically were asking us to commit billions over several yrs or they will block access, Boris however simply said fine, we will start our own schemes and research funds... within days the media were chomping on how students were going to lose out here and it's a disaster .... seems another scaremongering tactic that failed and in reality Brexit allowed us to create a better system.

PS if we are on good terms with other nations then a visa is a simple application, not a biggy that it is often made out to be, so what if we now need a visa, we have used the visa system successfully globally for decades, Please expand on all these other hoops we have to leap through now, I constantly here about them but no one seems to be able to tell me what they are.
 
We're clever than them anyway. The UK invented or discovered, Steam engine, Jet engine, Antibiotics, TV, even the mobile phone apparently. Not sure the last one was such a good thing, mind.
 
only partial with the jet engine. Germany was first to have a jet aircraft operational. the Arado (think 238 was it's designation)., followed by the Me262.
 
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