Cancellation rights trap.

[Richard Burns]

I've made a cut and paste of parts of it :
... The cancellation period will expire after 14 days from the day of the conclusion of the contract ... To meet the cancellation deadline, it is sufficient for you to send your wish to cancel the contract before the end of the cancellation period ... If you cancel this contract, we will reimburse to you all payments received from you, including the costs of delivery ...

So, you do a week's work, supply and fit £1000 of kit get paid say £2000 and you've given them 2 weeks after that to cancel the contract for no reason and you're going to pay them back £2000.

Can that be right?

The conclusion of a contract is when both parties have agreed terms i.e. when the customer says yes go ahead and you agree. So for the job to start the contract must already be concluded.

 

[Wilko]

Thank you Richard !
I thought I was going nuts - oops, too late perhaps

 

[Stevesplatto]

In a previous life I had to contend with this nonsense. The problem was that the contract was usually signed in the customer's house. If he came to the office to sign it he didn't have the right to cancel within 14 days, but mostly it was signed at his house. I had to give him the Notice of Right of Cancellation, and also a duplicate which he signed and gave back to me, so I had proof he had received the original. I then explained that I couldn't start work for 14 days. The customer invariably wanted me to start immediately, so I gave him a 3rd copy which had a waiver typed on it, saying he understood the regulations but nevertheless wanted the work done right away, and waived his right of cancellation. If he signed that 3rd copy I took it away with me and started work. There is a doubt over this practice, ie asking a customer to waive their rights of cancellation when it might be construed that they were acting under pressure (the exact situation the regs are designed to counteract) but I am happy to say I never had a problem. This may be because I was fortunate that no-one ever wanted to cancel, or, if they did, they realised they had signed a waiver and assumed they couldn't then cancel. At the end of the day, you are indeed supposed to issue these Notices if the work is agreed at the customer's home, and you run the risk of cancellation as happened in the OPs case. If you don't issue them, then you are seen as at fault and the customer wins again...that is the situation in Scotland, but I do believe these regs are the law throughout the UK and are EU based legislation. After following the law rigidly for a year, and thus amassing tons of extra paperwork, I simply gave up issuing the Notices, on the basis that if you didn't tell folks of the right to cancel, they probably wouldn't know about it...but the OP sadly has encountered some tricky beggar who knew the law and deliberately used it to avoid paying.

I'm now thinking this is the only one I've had and for short notice work (most of my work) there doesnt seem to be a proven way to deal with the 14 day requirement. can't see a proven way round this..

 

[Stevesplatto]

If this gets moved to the arms I will upload files that I use.

I had trading standards send me them, which I altered to be company specific.
They then checked the altered ones prior to me using them.

On a side note- I record all my calls. In circumstances like these I send the client an email (whilst on site) asking them to accept the terms and conditions as well as the info on my website.

That would be really useful mate. I've started to send emails (used to confirm by sms)
s

 

[elsparko]

so i could have someone come and build me a house and then not pay them for it? seems legit

 

[Stevesplatto]

If you do appeal, look at second paragraph here.

You don’t automatically get a cooling-off period if:

• you have something specially made - for example, made to measure curtains, windows or a conservatory (some traders voluntarily offer a 7 day cooling-off period for these products, but they don’t have to)
• you invite the business into your home for urgent repairs or maintenance - for example, when you ask a plumber to come and mend a burst pipe

You said you were brought in to do remedial work that was possibly left in a dangerous state and that his wife's condition made it urgent. You may have a get-out on that clause. Worth taking legal advice.

Sounds like he was screwed over by the first guy and then decided to take it out on you. He must have done his research when trying to get compensation from him. Then decided against it because of the first guys reputation.

A good solicitor would bring all this out. Problem is that costs. and with no guarantee of success its a risk.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm sure many on here appreciate that. And good luck with whatever action you take.

I think that's exactly what happened! Unfortunately I cant afford to go the appeal route and I want done with it.
Maybe a custard pie?

 

[Stevesplatto]

I have read this op a few times to get my head round it.
Cancellation rights? BUT you never cancelled you were sacked. This is an absolute disgrace, the law is an ---.!

I know, that's really what happened!

 

[elsparko]

when i was in wholesaler i noticed a notice

"all special orders are non refundable"

just put no refund for work carried out, if some asshat tried sending me back cuttings of cable after they cancel a job half way through id be blackening eyes

 

[Stevesplatto]

If this gets moved to the arms I will upload files that I use.

I had trading standards send me them, which I altered to be company specific.
They then checked the altered ones prior to me using them.

On a side note- I record all my calls. In circumstances like these I send the client an email (whilst on site) asking them to accept the terms and conditions as well as the info on my website.

That would be very useful. So trading statndards will do a company specific notice on request?

 

[Stevesplatto]

if a customer rings me up ,and ask me to do a job the same day.
I tell them, if you except the price .I will do the job there and then .
and most do , so no get out clause for them .

Thatswhat happened!

 

[Stevesplatto]

I have just put a bit in the downloads section

Thanks, where is the downloads section?

 

[Wilko]

so i could have someone come and build me a house and then not pay them for it? seems legit

And if a brick falls out 15 years later, have it rebuilt as it's clearly failed before it should've ...

 

[elsparko]

only costs a half thou to get a few legs broken, i wish someone would try and not pay me

 

[elsparko]

pretty stupid to invite someone to your home address to rip them off also LOL

how much does a double glazing cost? tyres? etc etc..

 

[static zap]

only costs a half thou to get a few legs broken, i wish someone would try and not pay me

..Do make sure you research you customers don't have friends on Lower places... (Scary nr Brum prison ..500->20)

 

[elsparko]

..Do make sure you research you customers don't have friends on Lower places... (Scary nr Brum prison ..500->20)

im sure i have friends in much lower places

 

[MFS Electrical]

Just got out of a small claims court. A technicality just cost me £750!
Goes like this:
I provided an estimate for remedial works left over by a previous electrician who was sacked bt the client. Dont usually take these on but his wife was 9 months prenantand they were desperate to get the bedroom completed.
Raised an estimate with a strong caveat that there may well be more works on further investigation (and there was, shocking work). Started the next day with an email acceptance.
2 1/2 days in with 1/2 a day to go the client sacks me. I raise an invoice for the work done. The client pays the bill under protest and takes out a small claims saying that under the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 because I didnt give information on cancellation rights I have to refund him the money for my labour so far.
The judge very apologetically agreed on legal grounds and I have to pay the client £750 incl court costs!

Most of my work starts within 14 days and a fair proportion is within 2-3 days of agreeing the estimate. Does anyone have any wording that would satisfy the regulations for work that is cancelled after it has comenced?
Cheers

Don't know how much of this will be of use to you or anyone else on here but i found this on the trading standards website. It is possibly too late to appeal now but maybe for future. It does say that you do not have to give a customer the right to cancel if it falls under an on premises contract and that actually if you think about it most of the work we do or certainly i do falls under this because of a technicality.

Traders that visit a consumer in their home and leave a quotation (or send one to them later), allowing them to decide and enter into a contract when they are ready to do so, will be entering into an 'on-premises contract'. This is because this transaction does not fall within the definition of an 'off-premises contract' unless the consumer agrees to the contract immediately after the trader has left their home, nor is it a 'distance contract'. This is important for many home improvements businesses that work in this way and will, therefore, fall under the requirements for on-premises contracts. This means that business selling in these circumstances only have to provide the information listed in this guide (rather than the larger list for off-premises contracts) and do not have to give cancellation rights. However, if your business uses this approach you must remember that you will be entering into off-premises contracts in those situations when you visit your customer and agree a contract there and then.

Got a massive lump in my throat reading your post and decided it was time to go belt and braces. so I've done my research and think that I will be just fine Hopefully :0 I am of course not a lawyer and I am considering getting one to look at my Ts&Cs but Id appreciate it if anyone on here would cast a Beady Eye over it and give me your thoughts. Maybe even help to add something I forgot about??
If anyone would like to have a read at my terms and conditions fire me a wee PM and ill send you the link to my website where i have them published.

 

[baldelectrician]

Traders that visit a consumer in their home and leave a quotation (or send one to them later), allowing them to decide and enter into a contract when they are ready to do so, will be entering into an 'on-premises contract'.

An 'on premises' contract IMO is a contract entered in to on a business premises- such as a shop or similar

One thing that crossed my mind- what if you have a mobile office in your van (a laptop and a seat). If you made the client sign the contract there then the contract is 'on premises' as you own the van (and it is not parked on their drive)

I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)

 

[Octopus]

I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)

Out of interest, would you share the wording on the forum? or by pm?

 

[baldelectrician]

Additional terms:

This quotation is valid from the date shown at the top for a period of 7 days, after which time a new quotation may have to be carried out.

Your right to cancel this contract (If applicable) and details of our complaints policy are below.

The right to cancel may or may not apply to landlords letting out a property. In many circumstances landlord works are a business – business transaction. .... Electrical cannot give advice if these works may or may not be covered with the cooling off regulations.

It is up to the client to ascertain this by seeking their own independent legal advice should they desire.

The guarantee does not cover consumable items, or any item with batteries or lights with non-removable lamps

This does not affect any of your other legal rights in relation to this contract.

Payment of deposit deems acceptance of terms and conditions set out at the web link below.

FULL BUSINESS TERMS ARE at our website

WEB LINKhttps://www.landlordtest.scot/terms-and-conditions

PLEASE READ THESE AS YOU WILL BE LEGALLY BOUND BY THEM IF WE ENTER INTO A CONTRACT. THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT CREATE A CONTRACT BETWEEN US.

Trader Details:

JO BLOGGS trading as ‘BLOGGS ELECTRICALl’

ANY STREET

ANYWHERE

. POST CODE email

Customer Details: (name / address)

Contract details: (reference number / details etc. sufficient to identify the contract offer)

Date:

You (the customer) have the right to cancel this contract if you wish. This right can be exercised by delivering, or sending notice to THE ELECTRICIAN at any time within the period of 7 days starting with the date of receipt of this notice. The notice of cancellation is deemed to be served as soon as it is posted or sent* or in the case of electronic communication from the day it is sent.

* signed for / recorded delivery is insisted upon to prevent any ambiguity.

If work on the above contract has begun, with your written agreement, before the end of the cancellation period, you may be required to pay for any goods or services supplied. Standard Scottish contract law applies if cancellation rights are waived.

You may use the cancellation form provided below only if you wish to do so.
"-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘If you wish to cancel the contract you MUST DO SO IN WRITING and deliver personally or send (which may be by electronic mail) this to the person named below. You may use this form if you want to but you do not have to.

(Complete, detach and return this form ONLY IF YOU WISH TO CANCEL THE CONTRACT.)

To JO BLOGGS trading as ‘BLOGGS ELECTRICALl’

I/We (delete as appropriate) hereby give notice that I/We (delete as appropriate) wish to cancel my/our (delete as appropriate) contract

Works cancelled: _________________________________________________________________

Signed:

Name and Address:

Date:

 

[MFS Electrical]

An 'on premises' contract IMO is a contract entered in to on a business premises- such as a shop or similar

One thing that crossed my mind- what if you have a mobile office in your van (a laptop and a seat). If you made the client sign the contract there then the contract is 'on premises' as you own the van (and it is not parked on their drive)

I send all my quotes with the cooling off period thing now- saves hassle, although many of my clients are landlords and the cooling off period may not apply (business to business transaction)

I did think that myself but apparently not I got this info from a link on the trading standards website and copied the info straight from there so seems legit...Bear in mind though I’m in Scotland so clicked the Scotland tab so it might be different for those colleagues south of the border

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