Comments - Full Rewire Required - C1

[Marcus Vaughan]

Hi All,

A top quality EICR report attached.

I'm detecting an increase in opportunists looking to scare the bejesus out of landlords in particular. This report is utter crap. Everything ticked or N/A on the inspection schedules to suggest all is satisfactory but then some belter C1's in observations, including 'Full Rewire Required". Same chap uses scaremongering of the likes of 'hefty fines or even imprisonment' for negligent landlords, and was offering EICR's for as little as £75 including VAT at one point.

I'm to visit the site this morning to try and get a sense of it. The same chap has already upgraded the consumer unit but does it need a rewire? I mean 'Resistance values low for all circuits?' - I take it he means IR but schedule of test results indicate all OK. What will I find.

I feel something should happen to stop this sort of carry on - but what?

 

[James]

Will be interesting to see what you find.

 

[Vortigern]

The test results are very unusual. 0.62 on all socket circuits. The 2.85 for the lighting is also in the wrong column? No mention of the C2 etc. re the problems observed in the schedule of checks either. Very poorly constructed. What is the history of this EICR, how is it in your hands.

 

[westward10]

According to the first page it is an Electrical Installation Certificate although further down the limitations indicate an EICR??
It is also noted as being in "Good" condition.

 

[SparkyChick]

He comments about the shower cable being undersized but says nothing about the 32A radial wired in 2.5mm. As for underrated cables being C1s.. unless they have melted and have exposed live conductors they are a C2.

As you say, IR values look fine, if they are in fact representative. No earth to lighting circuit... clearly lists 1.5mm, there is no way it won't have a CPC conductor.

Rubber cables... nice if it's true and definitely warrants a rewire, but the fact he's listed 'FULL REWIRE REQUIRED' as a C1 issue on the report gives me an indication of his ethics... looks to be trying it on with everyone.

Get in there and take a look... I suspect there probably isn't much wrong unless there really is rubber cable, but as Vortigern has pointed out some of the results look dodge so it's probably a drive by.

And of course give us an update later. As for doing something about it... conduct a reasonable amount of testing and take some detailed notes and drop trading standards a message if his report is wildy different to what you actually find.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

The test results are very unusual. 0.62 on all socket circuits. The 2.85 for the lighting is also in the wrong column? No mention of the C2 etc. re the problems observed in the schedule of checks either. Very poorly constructed. What is the history of this EICR, how is it in your hands.

It's in my hands because the customer is quite rightly concerned by the quality of the report, and has a tenant who is not keen on the disruption of a full rewire (can you do it room by room without making a mess and within 3 days?).

So the landlord has lost faith in this electrician and is trying again. I'm going shortly to have a look 'free of charge' so I won't be there long. I'll probably have a quick look at the new consumer unit, and take the cover off if they'll let me (concerns over undersized cables), and look at the earthing.

I'm thinking I'll have to insist on a new EICR before anything else....

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

According to the first page it is an Electrical Installation Certificate although further down the limitations indicate an EICR??
It is also noted as being in "Good" condition.

so it does....

 

[Vortigern]

Astonishing the shower is in 2.5, hard to believe really. The lights test looks like a lamp has been left in or something like that. Interesting to see what you find out when you do have a look.

 

[loz2754]

And the installation is only 10 years old.
And the main cut out is a type B 60947-3 isolator (whatever that is).

 

[plugsandsparks]

Very poor document, but i would be more worried about the 5 showers being used on the 2.5 sqmm ring. lol

In fact its so bad, it really is a bin job

 

[UNG]

Astonishing the shower is in 2.5, hard to believe really.

Could be a shower pump! which probably doesn't need a 2.5

 

[UNG]

I think the overall presentation of the report says a lot for the quality of the workmanship and attention to detail

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Could be a shower pump! which probably doesn't need a 2.5

I also wondered if it's a shower pump. I tend to write down the kW rating of electric showers on the schedule of test results when I carry out inspections....

Soon find out - I'm on my way........

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Quick update after a quick visit. Test kit stayed in the van. Client suggested himself that we should start again with a new EICR - which I'll do on Monday. Couldn't do it today.

Biggest cable in there is 4mm. Yes there is some aluminium in the light circuits at least. Shower is 9.5kW so that circuit at least to be rewired. Couldn't see any rubber. Some circuits were left disconnected.

Impressions are (without testing) that at least a partial rewire is required and with perhaps the remaining circuits fit for continued use but would benefit from the upgrade when practicable (which is not now). But I'm guessing.

It was definitely a fly-by inspection/consumer unit changeout, all done in one go, half an hour of testing, a couple of hours for the board change and away. The document seems to be a hybrid EIC/EICR.

Question is - do I dare post up my EICR on here?

On another note - EICR's can only be a good thing for landlords, tenants and electrical safety. The landlord gives me the impression that he cares about electrical safety but had no reason to suspect anything was unsafe.

 

[plugsandsparks]

That board and the EICR dont appear to be the same property, lol.

Its actually worse than i expected, client could well get some money back for this blatant con

 

[Dustydazzler]

That chint board is in a right old sorry state

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

That chint board is in a right old sorry state

Isn’t it just. Loose on the wall as well. Couldn’t get the lid back on. Horrible.

 

[loz2754]

Question is - do I dare post up my EICR on here?

Hahaha (evil cackle)! Go on, I dare you...

 

[Mike Johnson]

Question is - do I dare post up my EICR on here?

Only if you are into masochism. ?

 

[richy3333]

He C1'd the cooker circuit but no cooker circuit on schedule.

Love how he gave a C1 for a rewire! ???

The paperwork is a crock of sheet and so too is that board!

Good luck. The LL is in safe hands now ?

 

[Timbo]

That board is awesome.
I stand in awe of someone who has the nerve to do a job like that sh1te.

 

[Amp David]

Hi All,

A top quality EICR report attached.

I'm detecting an increase in opportunists looking to scare the bejesus out of landlords in particular. This report is utter crap. Everything ticked or N/A on the inspection schedules to suggest all is satisfactory but then some belter C1's in observations, including 'Full Rewire Required". Same chap uses scaremongering of the likes of 'hefty fines or even imprisonment' for negligent landlords, and was offering EICR's for as little as £75 including VAT at one point.

I'm to visit the site this morning to try and get a sense of it. The same chap has already upgraded the consumer unit but does it need a rewire? I mean 'Resistance values low for all circuits?' - I take it he means IR but schedule of test results indicate all OK. What will I find.

I feel something should happen to stop this sort of carry on - but what?

Thats one cracking certificate, christ did they actually know what thet are looking at?

How can a rewire be a C1? Its not even taken place!

See loads of these things, when I post on SM I dont bother redacting the details of the electrician/company, name and shame is the game!

 

[timhoward]

On another note - EICR's can only be a good thing for landlords, tenants and electrical safety. The landlord gives me the impression that he cares about electrical safety but had no reason to suspect anything was unsafe.

Totally agree after a couple I just looked at. There are good landlords out there who care. It's frustrating when a report intended to help a landlord does nothing to do that. Reading this report the landlord would logically conclude that he needs to take steps to increase the resistance of all circuits!

Anyone notice the apparent Zs@db of 2.6 ohms? Ze is fine. I'd hope most people would do a double take and wonder it they had reconnected the main earth.
With board location "Outhouse" supplied from "Kitchen" one suspects there is mass copy and pasting going on here.

 

[old man sparky]

As with most things in life these chancers are out there.
People have a great opportunity to research on line these days. So why the hell don't they ??
Years ago before the internet, it wasn't so easy to do that.
But now is very different.
We had 3 builders quote for an extension. One was a third the price of the other two wanting 5 grand up front. I wonder how many would have gone down that road ? In the end you have to research, and if it sounds to good to be true, you know it will be.
Just had to find a decent electrician to wire the extension. ?

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Quick update.
Spent much of the day there - and its only a 2 bed house. Such a mess though.
Previous EICR/EIC paperwork was no help at-all.
It was a bad board change too, tails not upgraded from 10mm, main earth is still 6mm and no bonding to water intake. Big holes, no grommet strip, cables not taken in to the enclosure. Board loose. Switchgear poorly located on the din rail so you could barely get the cover on/off. No sleeving on earths.
I had to split a couple of circuits to try and make sense of it. So I split the lights into two circuits, and the 'ring' on the B32 had no ring continuity on any conductors so split that.
A radial 2.5mm circuit serving 2 kitchen sockets was on a B32 so changed that breaker as well.

Shower was actually OK - B32/6mm (so more bullsh*t busting).
The oven was 'plug and play' and so protected by its own fuse (so that cable wasn't undersized either).

Some strange things as well, like the cpc of one of the lighting circuits was plaited into the cpc of one of the socket circuits (I don't mean twisted together, I actually mean plaited)?!

Not much right about the install/report at-all.

...but the place does need some work.....

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Thats one cracking certificate, christ did they actually know what thet are looking at?

How can a rewire be a C1? Its not even taken place!

See loads of these things, when I post on SM I dont bother redacting the details of the electrician/company, name and shame is the game!

I'd like to name and shame but his dad might be bigger than my dad!

 

[Simon47]

You have to remember that electrickery is some form of black art. Apart from some of the more blatant stuff, most people wouldn't be able to tell a safe install from a dangerous one - it's not like being able to see (for example) a roof sagging because the timbers are grossly undersized, or water leaking out of a poorly soldered joint.
And of course, if the con artists are members of a scam, err I mean scheme, then the expectation is that they are qualified, competent, and will do a good job - because that's what the scams keep telling Joe public.
And at the moment, there's a lot of EICRs to be done - so some landlords are in a panic to get them done. I've agreed with our tenant to go and do our rental house next week - but I know what I expect to find, nothing having changed since the last one 10 years ago.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Shower was actually OK - B32/6mm (so more bullsh*t busting).

What was the KW.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

I've a concern over the shower actually - because there are obvious signs of heat damage at the connection to the shower and connections seemed very tight too. I wanted to cut back and re-terminate but there is no slack. Not ideal as I don't really want to have to extend inside the enclosure (might be the lesser evil).

I know 6mm to run a 9.5KW is not ideal either, and it's against manufacturers install guidance for this model. Cable run is fairly straightforward and I'd say there are no derating factors - its clipped direct/in-trunking.

The damage could well be historical with the previous OCPD (whatever that was) failing to disconnect if long showers were taken on full load - but it's on a B32 now.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Gulp.
It's only fair I post up my own EICR for this install.
It's a draft just ready for me to proof read later.
Why do I have the feeling I am throwing myself to the Wolves?

 

[telectrix]

that looks an excellent report. also you can see what's going on in that CU now. only 1 thnig spotted with EICR.......you have 1363 for main fuse.?. obviously a typo. and i like all those evidential pics.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

that looks an excellent report. also you can see what's going on in that CU now. only 1 thnig spotted with EICR.......you have 1363 for main fuse.?. obviously a typo. and i like all those evidential pics.

Thank you - and good spot on the fuse - must have a brain fa*t.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Excellent work / report , hats off to you , I’m amazed you got all that done in the industry standard 15 minutes thou...

 

[timhoward]

It's great to see an excellent example on here. I really like the photos to both document evidence and help a non technical person understand.

 

[UNG]

Looks like a good report although it does need a proof read and some points clarifying the references to "Circuit Protective Conductors seen throughout including the lighting circuit. " and then indicating no CPC's at a number of lighting points is a bit confusing
Picture 10 I would add "some" with regard to the remedial work

Was expecting to see Inspected By Marcus Vaughan, Reviewed and Authorised for issue by electriciansforums.net??

 

[Deleted account]

Very Nice. both the report and the finished terminations in the board.

I would probably disagree with only one coding, but won’t as it’s your call and your the inspector.


Changed my mind.
I would probably C2 an unsecured board, but accept your C3 as it’s your call as the inspector.


One more thing. It takes either a brave, stupid or good sparkie to post there work on here.
I’m not sure if your brave.
I don’t think your stupid..
id conclude, good.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Who test certs format are they MV.

 

[Julie.]

Typo on photo 9 - Cloth (clith) - not a criticism, just bringing to you attention.

Wish all the "reports" I got handed to review were as good as this.

(Although to be fair if the reports are good - I never get to see them!)

 

[Mike Johnson]

Who test certs format are they MV.

I would also like to know, it looks very good.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I would also like to know, it looks very good

I have used a lot of test certs over the ears those ones that MV used look good
and still waiting to ear from him.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Who test certs format are they MV.

My own. But actually copied straight out of the 18th BBB.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Typo on photo 9 - Cloth (clith) - not a criticism, just bringing to you attention.

Wish all the "reports" I got handed to review were as good as this.

(Although to be fair if the reports are good - I never get to see them!)

Thank you.

 

[buzzlightyear]

My own. But actually copied straight out of the 18th BBB.

you must be very careful with copy write mostly out of the electricity bible .but there again do you want to send us copy's ,we want tell .lol.

 

[westward10]

I think he will be all write.