Do electricians actually need to have the 17th Edition?

[lemonkettaz]

I can’t get ecs card because I don’t have Am2 and nvq level 3

I have 2330 level 2 and level 3, 17th edition 2382 and 2394 inspection testing. Got a few years experience now too but because I’m in RE I can never get assessed where we work as it’s world wide

But ecs don’t think it’s good enough.

 

[paul291277]

I can’t get ecs card because I don’t have Am2 and nvq level 3

I have 2330 level 2 and level 3, 17th edition 2382 and 2394 inspection testing. Got a few years experience now too but because I’m in RE I can never get assessed where we work as it’s world wide

But ecs don’t think it’s good enough.

You're more qualified than me as I haven't done the 2394 but got my ECS card with just the lvl2; you'd need Am2 and nvq level 3 on top of your current qualifications to get the JIB Gold Card. Not to be confused with a standard ECS card which is basically an electrotechnical version of the CSCS card

 

[lemonkettaz]

It’s the grading that I don’t get I’ve been informed I would only qualify as a trainee but need to be registered to be on my way to do nvq 3,

I’ll be looking into again Easter next time back in the uk as planning on doing an am2 just to get it out the way. But as for nvq , no chance I’ll get that til I leave my current work and get permanent construction work based in uk only.

 

[paul291277]

It’s the grading that I don’t get

I don't think anyone gets it; whether it's electricians, the people that employ them, or the people that issue these qualifications/requirements

 

[I2C]

There are a few things to consider if you don't have a current version of BS7671 with the relevant guidance notes and building regulations relevant to your work.

If Things go Wrong:
If you did some work resulting in a fire/electrocution and you where sent to court on trial, you'd need to prove you are competent and did everything reasonably possible. The courts will always refer to BS7671 and it's relevant guidance-notes. "Do you own a copy? " and if not "how can you be sure your work was compliant?" and if it's not compliant "why was it not in compliance, was it a calculated deviation from regulations or negligence?" - this wouldn't end well.

Deviations from Regulations:
Some highly-educated and experienced designers will occasionally deviate from the regulations during their design, albeit with good reasons. They would make sure to document these deviations with extensive calculations and considerations for safety. This is outside of the scope of most electricians (including myself) because if something where to happen, you'd need to explain why you deviated from the regulations and what makes you competent in such a decision (I don't have a degree, or decades of design experience) so it's not normally worth it.

Notifiable Work:
If you're a member of a competency scheme, they may insist you own a current version of BS7671 (plus relevant guidance notes, OSG, Building Regulations, etc - which they will test you're knowledge and check previous work you've done). They may also insist you follow the regulations in order for them to allow you to self-certify you're work.
Alternatively if you use a building inspector, they will be following the guidance of BS7671 themselves to check your work and may not agree with any alterations.

To summarise, you don't (technically) need BS7671, nor do you need to follow it's advice. But if you don't, make sure you are competent to make that decision and have a complete-knowledge of what it says, and document why with great detail.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks SL

Bad spelling? you mean bad punctuation don't you?

 

[Pete999]

Thanks SL

Not seen you that much before Phillip, were have you been?

 

[bailes1992]

I worked for a college between February and September this year assessing apprentice electricians. The college removed the 17th Edition from the apprenticeship framework recently.
My apprentices when qualified were getting their gold cards without the BS7671 based on their NVQ Level 3 & 2330 alone.
The ECS website almost suggests that to be an electrician all you need is a BS7671.

 

[Pete999]

I worked for a college between February and September this year assessing apprentice electricians. The college removed the 17th Edition from the apprenticeship framework recently.
My apprentices when qualified were getting their gold cards without the BS7671 based on their NVQ Level 3 & 2330 alone.
The ECS website almost suggests that to be an electrician all you need is a BS7671.

Maybe the curriculum at the time you mention, covered BS7671 amendments / changes and the college rightfully removed the course / exam for BS7671 from the curriculum as it was deemed an unnecessary item to hinder the Apprentices with, makes sense to me.
I think the point you are talking about is trying to say that anyone who trained / qualified pre 17th need to sit this qualification, anyone who trained / qualified post 17th are deemed to have the 17th updates etc already.

 

[bailes1992]

Maybe the curriculum at the time you mention, covered BS7671 amendments / changes and the college rightfully removed the course / exam for BS7671 from the curriculum as it was deemed an unnecessary item to hinder the Apprentices with, makes sense to me.
I think the point you are talking about is trying to say that anyone who trained / qualified pre 17th need to sit this qualification, anyone who trained / qualified post 17th are deemed to have the 17th updates etc already.

That seemingly wasn't the case.
I attended the same college while I done my apprenticeship. At the time the BS7671 was a 'bolt-on' that college paid for.
The BS7671 was removed and the only answer I was given was to save money. BS7671 wasn't covered in any part of the curriculum otherwise.

 

[Pete999]

That seemingly wasn't the case.
I attended the same college while I done my apprenticeship. At the time the BS7671 was a 'bolt-on' that college paid for.
The BS7671 was removed and the only answer I was given was to save money. BS7671 wasn't covered in any part of the curriculum otherwise.

Maybe not the BS7671 course, but all the training at that time was BS7671 orientated, don't thinks it's possible to say BS 7671 wasn't covered, in my opinion.
Anyway the Course BS7671 is only an exercise in how to navigate the BS, and as you would have been using the 17th as a reference, it appears the college was right to ditch the 17th course, as an unnecessary expense in both time and money.

 

[I2C]

Anyway the Course BS7671 is only an exercise in how to navigate the BS, and as you would have been using the 17th as a reference, it appears the college was right to ditch the 17th course, as an unnecessary expense in both time and money.

I completely agree Pete999. In fact, my college did an experiment with the 17th Course; they entered one of their reception staff who had absolutely no electrical knowledge at all, but gave them only a couple of hours tuition in how to use BS7671... they passed the exam.

 

[Simonslimline]

The JIB/ECS card is one single card.
There is not a JIB card and an ECS card.
My brother passed his 2391 qualification just before the 17th edition was introduced.
Because the date on his Certificate was after the introduction of the 17th, the JIB assumed he had obtained his 2391 while the 17th was in force.
They showed on his card that not only did he have the 2391 but also the 2382.
My brother has never obtained the 2382.

So it is possible that the 2382 is not required, as long as the core electrical qualifications are obtained while the 17th edition is in force.
However in the not very far future the 18th will be required.

My Gold card also has the (BS7671 wiring regulations, 17th edition)

printed on the back. I have not done this either!

Not so sure why they put it on the card, also the website was saying I didn't hold the correct qualifications for the Installation electricians gold card, and I needed my company to endorse the application. A quick phone call to the jib had everything sorted and in the post, no endorsement needed either.