Do I need to test an old wiring installation?

[monkeyelectric]

FFS, did I post in Chinese Guys, I did not say they should have it rewired, I said it should be a recommendation and at no point did I say it should not be tested first...I seem to recall the first item on my list was a quote for Testing!!

So why did you say this then?
"but if the installation is more than 25 years old it should be rewired anyway and the test would be largely irrelevant"

 

[snowhead]

I take it you did not read my previous post then...

My comment says aluminium, meaning all aluminium, you stated coated.

 

[Outspoken]

So why did you say this then?
"but if the installation is more than 25 years old it should be rewired anyway and the test would be largely irrelevant"

It was a typo, should have actually said

"but if the installation is more than 25 years old it should likely be rewired anyway and the test would be largely irrelevant"

Until you cut that bit out had not realised I had left out likely in my typing...:90:

 

[monkeyelectric]

It was a typo, should have actually said

"but if the installation is more than 25 years old it should likely be rewired anyway and the test would be largely irrelevant"

Until you cut that bit out had not realised I had left out likely in my typing...:90:

Righto!

 

[Outspoken]

My comment says aluminium, meaning all aluminium, you stated coated.

Well as I had said earlier, I have never encountered aluminium T&E only the aluminium cored copper and the "tinned" stuff so it clearly was not common. So it's a case of well I never!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Get off your soap box, there is no hard sell in explaining reality should the installation fail any tests, but if the installation is more than 25 years old it should be rewired anyway and the test would be largely irrelevant.

this is twaddle....
yet again we have someone in here who has clearly shown they havn`t a sweet doodle what their talking about.....
getting a bit regular is this.....

 

[richy3333]

View attachment 18679

Thanks, as always, for everyone's replies - it's much appreciated.
I'll try and post the photo again - You'll just about see the unsheathed earth conductor to the old box behind the one to the new wylex.

In regard to testing - my question is what exactly I CAN test and record?

Ze, PFC, Continuity (between line conductors) and Insulation Resistance (live only, mostly), Polarity... - sure, I can get these. I can get and R1+R2 value from one of the radial circuits, but not from the lighting circuit.

I guess I'm being put off by the lack of obvious consistent earthing in the installation.... but now that I've listed what I CAN do (!), I guess there's quite a bit ...

Are the posters basically saying ... 'Look, test, record the results and basically use it as pretty clear evidence to suggest a rewire'?

KK

Just as a matter of interest, where about in the UK is this installation?

 

[stuartcourt]

this is twaddle....
yet again we have someone in here who has clearly shown they havn`t a sweet doodle what their talking about.....
getting a bit regular is this.....

but on a happy note if anyone needs any work call me I have about 200 rewires to jump on

 

[GLENNSPARK]

but on a happy note if anyone needs any work call me I have about 200 rewires to jump on

why....have they reached the magic `25`...like according to out..out..out of it...or whatever he`s called...
they must be passed their sell by date then stuart....lol...

 

[stuartcourt]

you know it my customers are in for an almighty shock lucky 25

 

[oldtimer]

So if I wire one property that has different conditions to another one that was wired at the same time then no matter what 25 years it has to be rewired ? makes you think why did we no install conduit in every property where it would have taken a day to rewire with no fuss or disturbance

 

[Dave 85]

I'm very suprised noone has commented on the fact that the wylex board in the photo appears to be a 17th edition high integrity board with both RCD's swapped for main switches suggesting the (apparently NICEIC registetred) installer couldnt get the RCD's to hold due to IR faults or perhaps borrowed neutrals or even an incorrectly wired CU and decided the best and safest option was to just get rid of the pesky RCD's. Incredible.
A slightly more clued up cowboy would at least have had the sense to identify the IR failed circuits and put just those on the main switch side or stick circuits with shared neutrals on the same MCB/RCD.
Believe or not I used to work for a guy who used to swap out RCD's for main switches because he didnt know how to make high integ boards work. He was fully apprenticed 2360 level 3, NVQ 3 AM2 and Elecsa registered.
That was around the time I decided I should probably work for myself.

 

[gnuuser]

definitely test first and be sure to make the home-owner aware of problem areas or improper repairs or installs.
stress that its their safety and compliance with codes that influence their your decisions.
they will usually be more in tune with your suggestions.
consumer safety and code compliance is the reason why our training is so strict

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you know it my customers are in for an almighty shock lucky 25

but honestly....
what was said before about needing rewiring after 25 years was just the biggest bunch of old horse shyte....
obviously he hasn`t grasped the effects numerous faults can have on the dielectric strength of cable insulation....
now, if he had any sense at all he would be looking at the BS3036 fusecarriers (if the install had a board utilizing these)...have a look in em....see how much splash is in there....that will give a good indication as to whether its been clearing loads of fault which in turn can be a good indicator of how the cable is (not always)....the more fault`s have been cleared...the less the IR on the final.....and thats before you even get the IR tester out....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

So if I wire one property that has different conditions to another one that was wired at the same time then no matter what 25 years it has to be rewired ? makes you think why did we no install conduit in every property where it would have taken a day to rewire with no fuss or disturbance

but some of these statements from the uninitiated are getting a bit demoralising old...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

definitely test first and be sure to make the home-owner aware of problem areas or improper repairs or installs.
stress that its their safety and compliance with codes that influence their your decisions.
they will usually be more in tune with your suggestions.
consumer safety and code compliance is the reason why our training is so strict

if on an ECR...you start by sampling 10%...any crap you up it to 20%...and so on...
as far as testing the install is concerned...you test the lot to the current edition of BS7671......
this is how you prove whether ..or not the install is good for continued service....
not some magical figure like 25 years plucked out of the clouds....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I'm very suprised noone has commented on the fact that the wylex board in the photo appears to be a 17th edition high integrity board with both RCD's swapped for main switches suggesting the (apparently NICEIC registetred) installer couldnt get the RCD's to hold due to IR faults or perhaps borrowed neutrals or even an incorrectly wired CU and decided the best and safest option was to just get rid of the pesky RCD's. Incredible.
A slightly more clued up cowboy would at least have had the sense to identify the IR failed circuits and put just those on the main switch side or stick circuits with shared neutrals on the same MCB/RCD.
Believe or not I used to work for a guy who used to swap out RCD's for main switches because he didnt know how to make high integ boards work. He was fully apprenticed 2360 level 3, NVQ 3 AM2 and Elecsa registered.
That was around the time I decided I should probably work for myself.

eh?....lol

 

[KingKenny]

Just as a matter of interest, where about in the UK is this installation?

It's in Northern Scotland, richy - most of the houses around here are old croft / farming properties - new builds are slowing down at present.

Thanks to everyone for their kind advice, and I hope those of you who have gone off on a tangent find your way back safely soon.

As the OP, I did post a follow up question about galvanised steel bein embedded in the outer structure of the property, between the pored concrete outer and cladding inner. Has anyone come across this before?

Ta. Kk

 

[richy3333]

It's in Northern Scotland, richy - most of the houses around here are old croft / farming properties - new builds are slowing down at present.

Thanks to everyone for their kind advice, and I hope those of you who have gone off on a tangent find your way back safely soon.

As the OP, I did post a follow up question about galvanised steel bein embedded in the outer structure of the property, between the pored concrete outer and cladding inner. Has anyone come across this before?

Ta. Kk

Had a feeling that was the case from the setup in the picture and the description of the property. How 'north' is north? East or West? I've had to contend with a few similar properties. I presume this isn't a crofters house - they wouldn't willingly pay for smoke detectors and crofting properties are rarely of concrete construction. Somebody mentioned earlier that the smokes were on the heating board, is it a THTC board?

 

[Outspoken]

this is twaddle....
yet again we have someone in here who has clearly shown they havn`t a sweet doodle what their talking about.....
getting a bit regular is this.....

Have you read the subsequent posts or just climbed on your soapbox again?

Now as I said in a previous post, I do not do domestic toy boy installations, I do real electrical work so if your happy that a given installation is perfectly safe after a test then that's fine, no need to rewire, cables these days are better quality than years ago, but as various home insulation materials over the years have been known to have detrimental effects on cables that are covered or buried in them, this much be taken into consideration when deciding if a given installation may require a partial or total rewire. Clearly this will depend on the level of scrutiny your able to give it under a visual inspection.