emergency Lighting installation

[leebut]

Hi Guys

I've fitted a few emergency lighting circuits to both domestic and commercial installs before, I've come across one I can't get my head round, this is going to be in a small supermarket one of these locals etc the existing lighting in the retail area is installed with three banks of three led battens so for ease of description shop left, shop middle and shop right each of these circuits have three LED battens attached to them and each circuit is fed from its own MCB in the DB, I'm guessing these circuits are fed separately at the DB only so that if one bank of lights goes off the retail area is still illuminated by the other two banks of lights.

So my question is how can I wire in an emergency lighting system on to the three circuits so that if any one circuit goes off the emergency lights are activated because the other two circuits would still be live, which would mean the emergency lights wouldn't come on, is there some kind of off the shelf relay system available that would work with this.

Thanks in advance guys


regards


Lee

 

[westward10]

What are you fitting maintained or non maintained.

 

[leebut]

What are you fitting maintained or non maintained.

the clients specification is Non Maintained

 

[nicebutdim]

Could you provide a rough sketch of the planned lighting?

 

[leebut]

Could you provide a rough sketch of the planned lighting?

I'm on with drawing up as we speak

 

[R-fur]

You could use a phase failure relay, they fit on DIN rail and are the size of one module. If any phase goes below a preset value then a contact operates.

 

[westward10]

Do you have BS5266 and experience of emergency lighting design.

 

[leebut]

Do you have BS5266 and experience of emergency lighting design.

Hi

I've done the C&G accredited installer course for fire alarms and emergency lighting with Napit, design of a straight forward single circuit with multiple non maintained lights isn't the issue here, its the three MCB's that are feeding three banks of lights in the retail area.

my initial idea was to connect all three circuits onto one MCB back at the DB the total load for the nine LED battens is no more than three Amps, but the initial designer of the lighting system has set the shop floor area so that if one bank of lights fails then there's two other banks of light so the retails store doesn't have to close.

 

[westward10]

Why would you connect them all to one circuit?
Three circuits with non maintained bulkheads from each through three test facilities.

 

[DefyG]

would mean the emergency lights wouldn't come on,

Would they need to come on if the other 2 banks of lights are still live?
A sketch would help.

 

[leebut]

Why would you connect them all to one circuit?
Three circuits with non maintained bulkheads from each through three test facilities.

Why would you connect them all to one circuit?
Three circuits with non maintained bulkheads from each through three test facilities.

The retail shop floor is 10 metres wide and 8 metres deep so why would you have emergency lights to cover one third of this shop floor area

 

[DefyG]

The retail shop floor is 10 metres wide and 8 metres deep so why would you have emergency lights to cover one third of this shop floor area

You wouldn't but as Westward said post #9 you would have EM lights in each aisle but the aisles remaining live wouldn't activate!
What would be the point as the shop lighting in the aisles that remain live would give greater illumination than a few EM bulkheads.

 

[Mikegh]

3 NC contactor poles will do it
Each lighting MCB feeds a pole which supplies EMs
Contactor energized by test unit
Commonly done that way ime anyway

 

[MDJ]

Hi Guys

I've fitted a few emergency lighting circuits to both domestic and commercial installs before, I've come across one I can't get my head round, this is going to be in a small supermarket one of these locals etc the existing lighting in the retail area is installed with three banks of three led battens so for ease of description shop left, shop middle and shop right each of these circuits have three LED battens attached to them and each circuit is fed from its own MCB in the DB, I'm guessing these circuits are fed separately at the DB only so that if one bank of lights goes off the retail area is still illuminated by the other two banks of lights.

So my question is how can I wire in an emergency lighting system on to the three circuits so that if any one circuit goes off the emergency lights are activated because the other two circuits would still be live, which would mean the emergency lights wouldn't come on, is there some kind of off the shelf relay system available that would work with this.

Thanks in advance guys


regards


Lee

Why out of interest has this got to be done this way? has it been requested by the client or is it your idea?

 

[leebut]

Why out of interest has this got to be done this way? has it been requested by the client or is it your idea?

What do you mean my idea of a request by the client??

The building doesn’t have EL at the minute the client has asked for a design and costing to install an EL system in the premises, I surveyed the site on Thursday and noted that the upstairs warehouse is wired on a single MCB so that area is straightforward, the retail shop area has three banks of lights each bank has three LED battens on the circuit

I’m after advise on how to link the three lighting circuits onto one EL circuit obviously that doesn’t work without some kind of switchgear or relays, there must be thousands of these set ups across the country and someone has had to deal with this problem before

 

[westward10]

You are over thinking this. Put in separate emergency lighting for each circuit they do not need to interact with each other.

 

[MDJ]

What do you mean my idea of a request by the client??

The building doesn’t have EL at the minute the client has asked for a design and costing to install an EL system in the premises, I surveyed the site on Thursday and noted that the upstairs warehouse is wired on a single MCB so that area is straightforward, the retail shop area has three banks of lights each bank has three LED battens on the circuit

I’m after advise on how to link the three lighting circuits onto one EL circuit obviously that doesn’t work without some kind of switchgear or relays, there must be thousands of these set ups across the country and someone has had to deal with this problem before

I know, but why are you thinking about linking 3 circuits into 1? simple question really.

 

[MDJ]

What do you mean my idea of a request by the client??

The building doesn’t have EL at the minute the client has asked for a design and costing to install an EL system in the premises, I surveyed the site on Thursday and noted that the upstairs warehouse is wired on a single MCB so that area is straightforward, the retail shop area has three banks of lights each bank has three LED battens on the circuit

I’m after advise on how to link the three lighting circuits onto one EL circuit obviously that doesn’t work without some kind of switchgear or relays, there must be thousands of these set ups across the country and someone has had to deal with this problem before

I think you are totally over thinking a basic emergency lighting system, I as well as many others on here I am sure are wondering what the heck you are talking about, 3 circuits, 1 goes off, 2 stay on and yet you want all 3 to come on non maintained, i am confused, I cannot understand your thinking, I am trying to be nice, but please try to explain whats going on here, I was wondering if the client had asked for this because it is a bit bizarre. if 2 circuits remain on why do you want all 3 circuits of emergency's to work ? cannot wait for your reply

 

[MDJ]

What do you mean my idea of a request by the client??

The building doesn’t have EL at the minute the client has asked for a design and costing to install an EL system in the premises, I surveyed the site on Thursday and noted that the upstairs warehouse is wired on a single MCB so that area is straightforward, the retail shop area has three banks of lights each bank has three LED battens on the circuit

I’m after advise on how to link the three lighting circuits onto one EL circuit obviously that doesn’t work without some kind of switchgear or relays, there must be thousands of these set ups across the country and someone has had to deal with this problem before

the client has asked for a design and costing? my point is now why are you asking us? if you are not sure of what to advise and cost them then get someone who knows this to help you, 3 circuits< 1 goes off, you want all 3 to come on even though 2 circuits are still live, come on leebut, I and I am sure others here are sure to be confused, lets start again, you say there are 3 rows of lights, when the power goes off on 1 then surely the emergency lights on that circuit come on, why bring emergency lights from the other 2 rows or circuits on as well? I want to be able to help you, i am sure others do as well but please please explain this again as I am very confused, you are over thinking this bud, slow down and think again.

 

[nicebutdim]

You are over thinking this. Put in separate emergency lighting for each circuit they do not need to interact with each other.

Or a combined fitting in each row.