"Domestic installer " due to be binned?

[LukeD]

The ending is so obvious ... Someone will earn millions from "filling the gap"

 

[Dustydazzler]

The ending is so obvious ... Someone will earn millions from "filling the gap"

Of course they will , as one door closes another opens

CPS schemes will offer 1 week intense training courses to join their scam , at probably a grand

 

[GBDamo]

If an industry sets a level of standards why should that industry be expected to dilute the level of those standards to allow people entry into that industry that don't have the time, can't afford the lower earnings while learning and all the other excuses that are used to gain a fast track into the industry


NAPIT originally set out to maintain standards in inspection and testing and now they are like the rest whatever you want to call it the domestic "electrician" / "installer" once the domestic and installer is dropped it all ends up as I'm an electrician which is misleading, I've lost count of the number of times when talking to these "electricians" how often I hear I don't understand 3 phase.
It annoys me that the industry feels the need to divide itself up into domestic, commercial and industrial to the point that is an electrician really an electrician anymore with the all encompassing skills that were taught in the past in an industry that is getting evermore complicated.
There has always been a divide in the industry with electricians who were happier as installation electricians and those who would also tackle faultfinding and the more technical tasks this was generally recognised with the JIB grading system


I was talking to a butcher a few weeks ago that was thinking of retraining as a veterinary surgeon as he felt he had transferable skills??
All joking aside would there be a problem if these assumed transferable skills were put to a written exam or a practical test rather than the standardised assessment that most seem to want

Although they were much maligned in the 80's the skillcentres with their 6 month courses turned out some good installation electricians that could work in most of the industries sectors, when they finished the course they were not the finished electrician and still had a lot to learn and skills to hone but they had a good base to work up from

Regarding the Domestic/ Commercial/Industrial delineation, I think it is due to efficiency.

The industry has become far more regulated, refer to the ever expanding waistline of BS7671, and increasingly specialised.

Most capable sparks could read up on the requirements and work outside their field competently and compliantly, but efficiently?

I've knocked a few jobs back due to lack of experience/comfort.

One was a run of 240mm 4 core SWA from a 1000A bus bar chamber to a TPN board in a GRP enclosure. Just too much learning and not enough skills...and a very twitchy sphincter.

I actually think the industry would benefit from splitting the qualifications and better tailoring them to the specific sectors with bridging courses where required.

 

[LukeD]

Regarding the Domestic/ Commercial/Industrial delineation, I think it is due to efficiency.

The industry has become far more regulated, refer to the ever expanding waistline of BS7671, and increasingly specialised.

Most capable sparks could read up on the requirements and work outside their field competently and compliantly, but efficiently?

I've knocked a few jobs back due to lack of experience/comfort.

One was a run of 240mm 4 core SWA from a 1000A bus bar chamber to a TPN board in a GRP enclosure. Just too much learning and not enough skills...and a very twitchy sphincter.

I actually think the industry would benefit from splitting the qualifications and better tailoring them to the specific sectors with bridging courses where required.

100% . There is ZERO reason why a kitchen fitter cannot be trained to do the electrics in a new domestic kitchen etc .Within a well structured 2 month full time course . If thats the guys career , why bog him down with stuff he does not wish to do etc ?

 

[mattg4321]

Disagree. Working on existing ring finals is actually relatively difficult compared with a new ring final. You need to test the existing circuit and make a judgement as to whether it is in good condition and also suitable for potentially adding extra load/circuit length to.

2 months is nothing like enough time to do that from scratch.

Kitchen fitters should stick to fitting kitchens unless they’ve done the relevant courses in gas/electrical etc and are competent in these fields.

 

[Zerax]

As I've said before on here... the whole qualification path needs a radical re-vamp ! The 'tweaking' that's done on a regular basis just increases the mess.

I think there needs to be a single structure for all entrants regardless of experience/aptitude/age etc... those more able will simply progress at a quicker pace than others. Theoretical exams and practical assessments should become more complex/challenging as the course progresses. At the end, you become a 'qualified electrician'... but there should be intermediate stepping stones to allow for achievement to be recognised.

Once I've sorted out the training scheme... I'm going to focus on re-writing all those appalling overpriced IET publications !

 

[UNG]

Regarding the Domestic/ Commercial/Industrial delineation, I think it is due to efficiency. a money making marketing opportunity

Fixed that for you

The industry has become far more regulated, refer to the ever expanding waistline of BS7671, and increasingly specialised.

The industry hasn't really become that much more regulated there are too many out there claiming to be electricians with little or no qualifications or experience yet they were accepted and given some credibility by the CPS's who saw an easy money making opportunity
By creating "specialisms" you again create money making opportunities as more mostly uneccessary courses are created

Most capable sparks could read up on the requirements and work outside their field competently and compliantly, but efficiently?

I agree, a lot depends on how capable and competent the person is though

I've knocked a few jobs back due to lack of experience/comfort.

One was a run of 240mm 4 core SWA from a 1000A bus bar chamber to a TPN board in a GRP enclosure. Just too much learning and not enough skills...and a very twitchy sphincter.

A bread and butter job that one

I actually think the industry would benefit from splitting the qualifications and better tailoring them to the specific sectors with bridging courses where required.

The industry is already overloaded with unnecessary meaningless courses so why create more by splitting qualifications and creating partially skilled electricians

I think you would then need to redefine the term electrician so as not to misrepresent the operative and also mislead the customer / client as to what the person(s) they are employing are actually trained as,

 

[nicebutdim]

How many apprentices gain significant experience outside of a fairly narrow field, during their training?

 

[Dustydazzler]

I’ve worked with ‘electricians’ who have never installed or even touched ‘Micc‘ but are approved contractors with a scam. Just because you have limited knowledge or experience doesn’t make you a bad electrician.

I can drive a car but not a bus, does that automatically make me a bad driver….??

 

[Vortigern]

I have always maintained that DI is easy really. I think the theory aspect is very simple as it goes. The practical aspects take a lot more learning. I believe that a few days course could easily equip you with the necessary theory. But again the practice, i.e. on site skills is not taught. This is where it all breaks down. I got a level three with all the qualies and asked them to have a look at the earthing and bonding and report back to me the condition before we started work. They did not have the faintest clue as to even where to look for the incoming water pipe. Thirty minutes later I pointed out their inability was due to lack of experience and that part was what they needed under a mentor to even become a proper DI. It is often a requirement that two years experience are stated as a necessary qualification to even do a D.I. course, the problem is that no college or private trainer rigorously enforces that. If they did the whole thing might be a very different picture.