EICR codes advice

[paulthemagpie]

Hi guys,

just looking for some advice on a few common issues ive found when conduction a commercial EICR and how best code them. Any advice and help is much appreicated.

So hear are some the senarios

1. No fuse spur to heater (hard wired straight to MCB with correct size cable and MCB for heater)- Im thinking code 2?

2. No isolator/fuse spur to curtain heater (hard wired straight to MCB with correct size MCB and cable for curtain heater in question) - again code 2?

3. Missing lid that covers MCBs (not fuse board cover) Code 3?

4. Different manufacture MCBs in board. (e.g 12 way wylex board with 11 wylex MCBs and 1 hager MCB) code 3?

5. Cables not supported in their runs? code 2

6. Cables not supported above false ceiling and lying on metal frame work. code 2?

7. Emergency lights not wired correctly for testing - just info

8. Main service incomer in open with no cupboard or barrier - code 2 with recommendation of some sort of cupboard or barrier.

9. DB in open with no cupboard or barrier - code 2 with recommendation of some sort of cupboard or barrier added to cover DB.

10. No visable signs of supplementary bonding - If it looks like it could be covered in building fabric and able to obtain a very low resistance reading with a wander lead then - info with notes

11. Breakers such as 3871? code 3 recommend upgrade to 60898 breakers

12. Old board with 3871 breakers with half upgraded to 60898 breakers - code 2 with recommend the rest upgrade to 60898s.

13. Fire panel not wired from DB to fire panel in fire resistant wiring - code 2.

14. No main switch between incomer and DB or first DB - code 2 if commercial

15. RCD as main switch on DB - code 2 with recommendation of main switch added even if it means a board change a no spare ways

if anyone would like to add to this list it may be helpful for others including myself.

 

[telectrix]

you need to consider each point and ask your self if you consider that there is a potential danger or not. if yes, then it's a code C2. if not, then C3.

 

[Andy78]

Hi guys,

just looking for some advice on a few common issues ive found when conduction a commercial EICR and how best code them. Any advice and help is much appreicated.

So hear are some the senarios

1. No fuse spur to heater (hard wired straight to MCB) - Im thinking code 2?
What size heater, what size MCB, what size cable ?
2. No isolator/fuse spur to curtain heater (hard wired straight to MCB) - again code 2?
As above
3. Missing lid that covers MCBs (not fuse board cover) Code 3?
Which reg are you stating here ?
4. Different manufacture MCBs in board. (e.g 12 way wylex board with 11 wylex MCBs and 1 different make MCB) code 3?
Which reg are you stating here ?
5. Cables not supported in their runs? code 2
What is the situation and location and what is the perceived danger ?
6. Cables not supported above false ceiling and lying on metal frame work. code 2?
What type of cable, what situation, what danger are you commenting on ?
7. Emergency lights not wired correctly for testing - just info
?
8. Main service incomer in open with no cupboard or barrier - code 2 with recommendation of some sort of cupboard or barrier.
Which reg are you stating here ?
9. DB in open with no cupboard or barrier - code 2 with recommendation of some sort of cupboard or barrier added to cover DB.
Which reg are you stating here ?
10. No visable signs of supplementary bonding - If it looks like it could be covered in building fabric and able to obtain a very low resistance reading with a wander lead then - info with notes
Is the bonding needed ?
11. Breakers such as 3871? code 3 recommend upgrade to 60898 breakers
Which reg are you stating here ?
12. Old board with 3871 breakers with half upgraded to 60898 breakers - code 2 with recommend the rest upgrade to 60898s.
Which reg are you stating here ?
13. Fire panel not wired from DB to fire panel in fire resistant wiring - code 2.
Which reg are you stating here ?
if anyone would like to add to this list it may be helpful for others including myself.

My thoughts in red.

 

[paulthemagpie]

im looking for general advice overall not on a particular installation. So basically on the first points id be taking it the right size heater, cable and MCB is in place

 

[Andy78]

im looking for general advice overall not on a particular installation. So basically on the first points id be taking it the right size heater, cable and MCB is in place

So what code would you give it if the co-ordination between cable size, kW rating of heater, and MCB were as they should be for compliance with the regs ?

 

[paulthemagpie]

id be inclinded to say code 2 as they should be some sort of isolator/fuse spur local to the heater.

 

[Flanders]

I agree a with ANDY and you seem to be putting code 2s against a lot of observation that are not potentially dangerous , why do you think 3871 MCBs are potential dangerous and it would depend on the environment for barriers around service Head , for example if fork lift truck could hit it then I would agree with a code 2

 

[Andy78]

id be inclinded to say code 2 as they should be some sort of isolator/fuse spur local to the heater.

What is the potential danger you have identified and what regulation would you be using to support that ?

 

[Flanders]

id be inclinded to say code 2 as they should be some sort of isolator/fuse spur local to the heater.

May need local isolation but would give that a code 3 , why would it need a local fuse ?

 

[telectrix]

i'd say from the OP that most of those would be a C3.

 

[paulthemagpie]

May need local isolation but would give that a code 3 , why would it need a local fuse ?

meant either or. You see alot of heaters already fitted with local fuse spurs at each heater

 

[Andy78]

meant either or. You see alot of heaters already fitted with local fuse spurs at each heater

You can't issue a coded observation based on "It hasn't got what you usually see a lot of" though can you ?

 

[andyb]

You can't issue a coded observation based on "It hasn't got what you usually see a lot of" though can you ?

That would certainly make life easier Andy.

 

[Andy78]

That would certainly make life easier Andy.

Not mine, I'd be forever writing EICRs with at least 4 continuation sheets just for observations.

 

[Flanders]

meant either or. You see alot of heaters already fitted with local fuse spurs at each heater

All all depends on how the circuit is wired , for example they may be on a 32 amp ring final circuit so need local over current protection. and ypu would be correct to give it a code 2

 

[paulthemagpie]

You can't issue a coded observation based on "It hasn't got what you usually see a lot of" though can you ?

yes i understand that . I just thought this was a requirement to have some sort of isolation point local to the heaters?

 

[Andy78]

yes i understand that . I just thought this was a requirement to have some sort of isolation point local to the heaters?

You can't issued a coded observation based on what you suspect may be required either.

 

[paulthemagpie]

You can't issued a coded observation based on what you suspect may be required either.

thats why im on here andy to get some guidance and advice.

What code if any would you be inclinded to give a DB that isnt in a cupboard or within any barrier, ect.

 

[Flanders]

thats why im on here andy to get some guidance and advice.

What code if any would you be inclinded to give a DB that isnt in a cupboard or within any barrier, ect.

I mentioned this in post 7 " it would depend on the environment for barriers around service Head , for example if fork lift truck could hit it then I would agree with a code 2" every installation is different so there is not just one answer to this

 

[Andy78]

thats why im on here andy to get some guidance and advice.

What code if any would you be inclinded to give a DB that isnt in a cupboard or within any barrier, ect.

My best guidance and advice would be that if you are not sure whether something is required by the regs or not then look it up in the regs. It's going to take a long time to go through all your original points at this rate.

A lot of your original points would be dependant on the situation and it would be impossible to tell you what code as some could range from no code to a C2 dependant on other factors. It's down to the inspector to deem issues dangerous or not based on the situation, but all observations must have a basis in the regs otherwise it's not a technical report based on the requirements of BS7671, it's just opinion.

If you could answer all my points in red from my first post then we could start from there.

I would also advise some serious revising or studying as you seem to be picking codes at random without any thought or justification as to why. If a client handed me an EICR with all your points coded as they are in your original post I would tell them that someone either didn't know what they were doing, and/or is trying to pull a fast one with a large remedial works bill.
I'm not trying to be harsh with that comment, just offer my truthful opinion.