EICR Codes

[mwigham85]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick one,

I recently completed an EICR, the MCBS were push in wylex 3871 with a breaking capacity of 1 or2 kA depending on the size. The property's PFC was 3 kA so I graded it as C2.
My question is can I put in push in 60898 MCB's with a Breaking capacity of 6ka and put the fact there is no rcd as a deviation from the regs as the customer cant afford to replace it. And just install a rcd socket for outside use.

Regards Mike

 

[alanl]

What is the DNO fuse?
Does that cover the short circuit current?
C2 for no RCD -why?
Do they use stuff outdoors? If they do, maybe recommend a RCD adaptor plug?

 

[andyb]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick one,

I recently completed an EICR, the MCBS were push in wylex 3871 with a breaking capacity of 1 or2 kA depending on the size. The property's PFC was 3 kA so I graded it as C2.
My question is can I put in push in 60898 MCB's with a Breaking capacity of 6ka and put the fact there is no rcd as a deviation from the regs as the customer cant afford to replace it. And just install a rcd socket for outside use.

Regards Mike

I would not of given a 3871 a code 2, probably no code.

As to your question, it's not a deviation on your part, it's something to be noted in 'comments on existing installation'

 

[Andy78]

Have you checked that the capacity of a push in 60898 MCB is adequate ? The Wylex ones I am familiar with are rated at 3kA and not 6kA.

Also, the budget of the customer has absolutely nothing to do with any coding you provide on an EICR. You are providing a report on the safety of the installation. Any remedial work or cost is a separate issue to the report itself.

 

[mwigham85]

Hi guys thanks for the responses but it still hasn't answered my question.
To make it clearer I have already completed the EICR and they want it to be satisfactory, I have graded the 3871 MCBs as a C2 because the PFC is exactly 2.8kA and the 5 amp 3871 are rated at 1 kA therefore if a fault current of greater than 1kA occurred it would render the MCB unusable and could potentially cause a fire if it was to arc across.The incoming fuse would be rated higher than 1kA obviously so the MCB would fry first. Also no RCD protection downstairs C2 in case their used for outside equipment.
So my question was can I,
1) Install 60898 push in MCBs ( rated at 3ka as pointed out to me)
2) Install 1 RCD socket by the back door and install 1 RCD socket by the front door to get around the using sockets outside.
Then just retest as a new install and put down the fact everything on the consumer unit isn't RCD protected
as a deviation??
I would normally just changed the CU but the space isn't big enough for a dual RCD board so it would have to be all RCBOs to save space plus what I charge to install would be £££ instead of £70 for a few push in breakers and a couple of RCD socked it would take me about 20 mins to install. As they told me cash is tight. (I'd rather walk away than be 100% sure)
cheers Mike

 

[andyb]

I did answer Mike but maybe a bit too brief,

When you change the mcbs & fit the new rcd sockets you will have to issue minor works certificates or an installation certificate. On this you note in 'comments on existing installation' the fact that there is no rcd protection etc.

If you then issue a new EICR then I would think that these are a code 3.

 

[Sintra]

What edition of the regulations was the installation installed to? Once you answer this then the coding for lack of additional protection can be ascertained.

 

[mwigham85]

What edition of the regulations was the installation installed to? Once you answer this then the coding for lack of additional protection can be ascertained.

To be honest I'm not sure which Edition it is, I normally just C2 anything I don't like just to be on the safe side, as so many people have different views even the NIC EIC seem to know less than I do they basically just say make it up as you go along. Do you or any one have any general pointers on what to look for to ascertain which edition an installation is,also is there any good books on coding everything which are set in stone???? As its beginning to get on my nerves all the different things people tell me.
thanks

 

[andyb]

Best practice guide 4 helps, I'm on my phone in the pub at the moment but I'm sure someone can post a link.

 

[7029 dave]

To be honest I'm not sure which Edition it is, I normally just C2 anything I don't like just to be on the safe side, as so many people have different views even the NIC EIC seem to know less than I do they basically just say make it up as you go along. Do you or any one have any general pointers on what to look for to ascertain which edition an installation is,also is there any good books on coding everything which are set in stone???? As its beginning to get on my nerves all the different things people tell me.
thanks

Don't take this the wrong way, but you should know the types of installation's, you are doing the EICR's on, experience is key with different periods of regs.View attachment best-Practice-Guide-4.pdf

 

[mwigham85]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you should know the types of installation's, you are doing the EICR's on, experience is key with different periods of regs.View attachment 29548

That's true!! I know all about installing 17th editon and all about actually testing it's just dating old installs and coding them I need to brush up on.I can't wait until I'm 60 and ill know everything!!

 

[soulman]

Hi, a code 2 for the breaking capacity of the circuits breakers is incorrect. There should be no code, the suppliers fuse acts as a back up REG 434.5.1 green book, yellow book in van.
Also I would have thought no 30ma rcd for socket outlets likely to supply equipment outdoors TN system would have been a code 3, however Tech helpline informs me that it is a code 2 now.

Cheers

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

There is a New Issue 4 of this Guide 4
Ive printed them all off to have a read

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi, a code 2 for the breaking capacity of the circuits breakers is incorrect. There should be no code, the suppliers fuse acts as a back up REG 434.5.1 green book, yellow book in van.
Also I would have thought no 30ma rcd for socket outlets likely to supply equipment outdoors TN system would have been a code 3, however Tech helpline informs me that it is a code 2 now.

Cheers

True but under certain conditions. The short-circuit capacity of over current protective devices incorporated within consumer units maybe be taken to be 16KA where:

> the consumer unit complies with BS 5486-13 or BS EN 60439-3

> the consumer unit is supplied through a type 2 fuse to BS 1361 rated at no more than 100 A.

 

[soulman]

True but under certain conditions. The short-circuit capacity of over current protective devices incorporated within consumer units maybe be taken to be 16KA where:

> the consumer unit complies with BS 5486-13 or BS EN 60439-3

> the consumer unit is supplied through a type 2 fuse to BS 1361 rated at no more than 100 A.

In a domestic situation, I think this would be the case.

 

[davesparks]

In a domestic situation, I think this would be the case.

It all depends how old the board is, being plug in breakers suggests it is quite old and may pre-date those BS standards

 

[soulman]

Davesparks, Reg 434.5.1 does state any conditions. Can you tell where that info is.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 26818]

From what I can determine, the OP and the Technical Help line appear to believe a code C2 is applicable for a non-compliance with a requirement which no longer exists.
It also appears that it cannot be determined whether there was such a requirement at the time of design/construction.

Could I suggest that codes are only applied to non-compliances with existing requirements?
I believe it would make life much simpler.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Davesparks, Reg 434.5.1 does state any conditions. Can you tell where that info is.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

guidance note 3.