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Hi
I am a retired electrician , 17th and 2391
I own a tenanted property which will require an Eicr before April next year or sooner, if I have a change of tenant
I guess I am going to have to pay a registered company to do this, which is I really dont want to do
Which is crazy when I am more than capable,

Is there any way round this , or do I just have to bite the bullet ?

Cheers Phil
 
Hi
I am a retired electrician , 17th and 2391
I own a tenanted property which will require an Eicr before April next year or sooner, if I have a change of tenant
I guess I am going to have to pay a registered company to do this, which is I really dont want to do
Which is crazy when I am more than capable,

Is there any way round this , or do I just have to bite the bullet ?

Cheers Phil

Good day Phil
My understanding is that the EICR will be required on change or renewal of tenancy or by April 2021 - whichever is first. It is also the case that the qualification for an EICR is that the person carrying out the testing/certification is suitably qualified and experienced rather than belonging to a CPS. May be worth looking that up. Other consideration though is insurance. I have Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurances to cover me should I get it work in a really big way. So I think you have to weight up the pros and cons and decide which is a best fit for you.

Best

Peter
 
Hi Phil,
Do a bit of reading on the 18th and what the differences from the 17th are, download a model form (There are some on here) and do it yourself. Your probably more competent than most who will be doing these tests anyway Just by having the 2391. Any questions just ask on here, I’m sure there are people who will give an old boy a nudge in the right direction on here if you have any queries ?
 
Hi Phil,
Do a bit of reading on the 18th and what the differences from the 17th are, download a model form (There are some on here) and do it yourself. Your probably more competent than most who will be doing these tests anyway Just by having the 2391. Any questions just ask on here, I’m sure there are people who will give an old boy a nudge in the right direction on here if you have any queries ?
Hi Phil,
Do a bit of reading on the 18th and what the differences from the 17th are, download a model form (There are some on here) and do it yourself. Your probably more competent than most who will be doing these tests anyway Just by having the 2391. Any questions just ask on here, I’m sure there are people who will give an old boy a nudge in the right direction on here if you have any queries ?
Thanks for the replies guys
Yes I will do a bit more reading
The house had been rewired to to the 17th when I got it ,but did need some remediable work
I am confident I can inspect it to the 18th, (have to get my qualifying supervisors head back on) its just the legality that I am unsure of

Cheers


So
 
If you were a QS aswell you should have no issues. Have a read up on the 17th Edition Amm3 aswell if your retired prior to 2015 as that includes the whole metal consumer unit ordeal.
Try not to read the masses of other EICR posts were currently having and there are a lot of dodgy code suggestions knocking about.
 
I'm wondering what your insurance company (for your rented property) might say about you carrying out the EICR on your property, and whether they could be sure it was an unbiased opinion? Not saying you would not record things correctly, but do you get what I'm saying. Its not like an EIC, its your professional opinion and some here recommend having professional indemnity insurance to carry our EICR's

Have you asked them?
 
I'm wondering what your insurance company (for your rented property) might say about you carrying out the EICR on your property, and whether they could be sure it was an unbiased opinion? Not saying you would not record things correctly, but do you get what I'm saying. Its not like an EIC, its your professional opinion and some here recommend having professional indemnity insurance to carry our EICR's

Have you asked them?

Yes thats a thought , but they never ask about the annual Gas test ,which of course I have done
 
As already mentioned by Taylortwocities, the best practice guide #4 has a lot of useful information in it.

A lot of those codes are not likely to come up on something that was rewired to 17th but you might find a couple of points that would result in a C3, or maybe just a C2 (which would require correction as a landlord) for bathroom related stuff, etc.
[automerge]1593863265[/automerge]
More than likely it would be a lack of RCD protection, but if you have a new-ish CU then changing to RCBO for those circuits, etc, may correct things.
 
As already mentioned by Taylortwocities, the best practice guide #4 has a lot of useful information in it.

A lot of those codes are not likely to come up on something that was rewired to 17th but you might find a couple of points that would result in a C3, or maybe just a C2 (which would require correction as a landlord) for bathroom related stuff, etc.
[automerge]1593863265[/automerge]
More than likely it would be a lack of RCD protection, but if you have a new-ish CU then changing to RCBO for those circuits, etc, may correct things.
Yes I may have a read of the 18th and add some RCBO,s as its just a single RCB split board just to update it a bit. But wait until things get back to normal before I do
 
Yes I may have a read of the 18th and add some RCBO,s as its just a single RCB split board just to update it a bit. But wait until things get back to normal before I do
Depending on space it might be simpler to make it in to a dual RCD split board then all circuits will have RCD protection and that ought to eliminate that sort of issue to be corrected.

Worth checking the leakage per circuit first, and making sure there is no "borrowed neutral" in any upstairs/downstairs lighting arrangements.
 
I'm wondering what your insurance company (for your rented property) might say about you carrying out the EICR on your property, and whether they could be sure it was an unbiased opinion? Not saying you would not record things correctly, but do you get what I'm saying. Its not like an EIC, its your professional opinion and some here recommend having professional indemnity insurance to carry our EICR's

Have you asked them?
The problem with asking the insurance company is that they might say no. As long as there's nothing in the 'small print' about not being the tester and the policy holder, if that was me, I'd carry on. There's certainly nothing in BS7671 against it, nor in any statutory document.
 
The problem with asking the insurance company is that they might say no. As long as there's nothing in the 'small print' about not being the tester and the policy holder, if that was me, I'd carry on. There's certainly nothing in BS7671 against it, nor in any statutory document.

The problem with not asking the insurance company, is they might say no, when making a claim. My point is nothing to do with BS7671 nor similar documents, statutory or otherwise. The insurance company may have no objections.

If I was the prospective tenant, I would not be comfortable with the landlord carry out his or her own safety testing, just to save money. I would want such testing carried out by an independent person or company, no offence meant @philich.

From the RLA web site:

Can I self-certify the property? If you are qualified to check installations to the 18th Edition of the Wiring Regulations and provide a report on it then yes you should be able to self-certify. However, if there are any issues with the property upon inspection by a local authority you would likely be in a worse position than someone who had a qualified person perform the inspection for them.
 
Depending on space it might be simpler to make it in to a dual RCD split board then all circuits will have RCD protection and that ought to eliminate that sort of issue to be corrected.

Worth checking the leakage per circuit first, and making sure there is no "borrowed neutral" in any upstairs/downstairs lighting arrangements.
Thats a good point , that cold be a pain
 
Hi
I am a retired electrician , 17th and 2391
I own a tenanted property which will require an Eicr before April next year or sooner, if I have a change of tenant
I guess I am going to have to pay a registered company to do this, which is I really dont want to do
Which is crazy when I am more than capable,

Is there any way round this , or do I just have to bite the bullet ?

Cheers Phil
Hi Phil,

This may sound mad, but when I moved to the Scottish islands a few years ago, I kept my mainland property and rented it out. The number of checks it had to go through caught me by surprise - EICR, PAT, Energy Performance, Gas Cert, Smoke alarms and heat sensors, and Legionnaires check.

I initially conducted my own EICR, but then considered potential legal wrangles further down the line around conflict of interests, plus I only do a few jobs year. So I had an electrician (that I didn't know) carryout a full EICR, which I paid for - he wasn't aware of my background.

Was it worth it? Yes it was nice to have a different set of eyes look over your work and to see stuff he picked up as recommendations that I had overlooked.
 
If I was the prospective tenant, I would not be comfortable with the landlord carry out his or her own safety testing, just to save money. I would want such testing carried out by an independent person or company, no offence meant

And you are entitled to that opinion, but it would be irrelevant, tenants don't get to choose who carries out work on behalf of the landlord.
If they did then I'd be insisting that my landlord gets a qualified professional in to fix things instead of having a go at it himself. Instead I have resorted to fixing things myself
 
When I became a landlord I paid a company to do an electrical inspection. They were so good that they managed to issue a certificate without getting keys to the property. After that I updated my qualifications and now do my own inspections. Never had an issue with the tenants and I know it is done right.
 
And you are entitled to that opinion, but it would be irrelevant, tenants don't get to choose who carries out work on behalf of the landlord.
If they did then I'd be insisting that my landlord gets a qualified professional in to fix things instead of having a go at it himself. Instead I have resorted to fixing things myself

You are slightly missing my point.
 
You are slightly missing my point.
I think the way forward is
Put RCBO,s on the lighting, they are the only circuits not protected.
If they have a shared neutral then away round it maybe move them to the RCD side and put the the Rings on RCBO,s
Do a full inspection myself and then get a company in to test a certify
I am confident it would pass now but with C3,s for the lighting and the plastic consumer unit
Changing the consumer unit would probably be notifiable and I draw the line at paying someone to do that
But I wont doing anything just yet ,I have until April
 
I think the way forward is
Put RCBO,s on the lighting, they are the only circuits not protected.
If they have a shared neutral then away round it maybe move them to the RCD side and put the the Rings on RCBO,s
Do a full inspection myself and then get a company in to test a certify
I am confident it would pass now but with C3,s for the lighting and the plastic consumer unit
Changing the consumer unit would probably be notifiable and I draw the line at paying someone to do that
But I wont doing anything just yet ,I have until April
No the way forward, is for someone else, not you doing it, coming up with their own action plan, for the way forward.
 
I think the way forward is
Put RCBO,s on the lighting, they are the only circuits not protected.
If they have a shared neutral then away round it maybe move them to the RCD side and put the the Rings on RCBO,s
Do a full inspection myself and then get a company in to test a certify
I am confident it would pass now but with C3,s for the lighting and the plastic consumer unit
Changing the consumer unit would probably be notifiable and I draw the line at paying someone to do that
But I wont doing anything just yet ,I have until April
Hia all, I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong with my previous harsh judgements of failing a plastic consumer I’ve started new job with housing association this week as my private work gone quiet bar the one I’ve just finished after 3 months of late shifts ? I’ve quickly been put down by chief spark of company with regards to my harsh views on consumer units. However one thing he did agree with was my concern that open grommets being used on metal consumers rather than fire grommets especially on the underside of consumer unit where meter tails entered consumer. Also when holes are holesawed with rough edges. I can’t remember who the landlord was that sent huge response to me but I do apologise I fell asleep after your 2nd paragraph got bit bored ?
 
I hope nobody minds if I resurrect this discussion. But it's pretty much exactly the same question I was going to ask. I'm also a retired sparks. Also a landlord. Also need and eicr before April 2021. And although not strictly needed, a cu change, because I'm considering selling in the next year or so, and if I have to have an eicr anyway, I might as well upgrade.

Technically I can easily do it. But same question , --- am I allowed?

Actually I don't mind the circa 130 - 150 quid for an eicr. But I'm not so keen to shell out 300-450 quid for a 6 way cu that I can buy for less than 80 quid and change myself, and still enjoy doing. Problem is, I'm not part p or any other membership.

Was this question resolved fully? Am I allowed to do this? I've searched and either I'm missing it, or there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.

Advice appreciated, and thanks in advance.
 
Not the legal route, but you could change the CU yourself and “forget” to notify it.

As there are no quals needed to carry out an EICR (how ridiculous is that) you could do this yourself.
 
You could notify the work yourself. Or get a spark to certify and do BC given that he would test and be consulted on the plan and work methods etc. Yes you can do an EICR. Clearly if what you say is true then you qualify legally and regulation wise to do the work. Being retired would have no effect on that unless you have gone senile.
The rub would be your rather kind interpretation of C3 for no rcd on lighting. Now I am not saying it should be a C2, but NAPIT do in their codebreaker book. The reasoning being, tenants can get up to some crazy stuff and RCD all round seems to be the way to go. A conscientious LL would want the tenant to be as safe as possible. What say you now to a C3? In which case a new DB is on the agenda. So notification is the problem, the cost without being a member of the scheme will work out the same as getting someone registered to do it. So, logically I would say get someone else to do it and move the liability away to that other person. Surely you have some mates who you supervised? Get them to do the work so you know the operative is kosher. You know it makes sense.
 
It has been known for people to fall for unscrupulous installers who put in a new consumer unit, take the money and are not forthcoming with the certificate.
If you were in that position then the local building control will usually accept an eicr as an alternative to an installation certificate.

as a retired spark, at least if you were put in this situation you would at least have a copy of the test results from the dodgy installer because they "left them by the fuse board"
so you would know what the outcome of the eicr would be.

I presume you still have your test gear??
 
My insurance policies say nothing about qualifications of trademen (or myself). It's hard to see how an insurance company could have an argument for someone inspecting their own installation - after all, it's an inspection and apart from the opportunity to introduce bad connections, you won't be introducing any faults.
At the same time, you could get "anyone" to come and do electrical works which do involve design etc and have a far higher risk of introducing faults. Yet there's no restrictions on who they might be.

And how could the local authority cause any problems ? Unless it's something so blatant that no-one could have missed it then it's all down to judgement anyway. In my case, I could probably stop them dead in their tracks with something along the lines of "so, this person who's saying I'm wrong, what qualifications does he have and do they at least match mine ?"

Interestingly the page that link goes to now (RLA have merged with NLA to form the NRLA) doesn't contain that bit of text. It does however contain a number of factual errors and the way it's worded suggests that it was provided for them by Napit - oh, I hadn't looked at the top where it says it was provided by Napit. As is usual for stuff produced by the scams, it contains either "factual errors", or very careful wording that's designed to leave someone with a false impression - usually to lead someone into believing that it's a legal requirement to use a registered electrician. In this case it's just an outright lie, it says that "Any Electrical Inspector you employ to undertake the electrical inspection and testing within your property must ..." and then goes on to list 4 requirements which are not specified in the regulations at all. All good ideas, but not one of them qualifying for the use of "must".
When I became a landlord I paid a company to do an electrical inspection. They were so good that they managed to issue a certificate without getting keys to the property. After that I updated my qualifications and now do my own inspections. Never had an issue with the tenants and I know it is done right.
We can expect a lot more of that in the coming few months - along with the "long list of spurious C2s and a suitable quote to fix them" results.
I hope nobody minds if I resurrect this discussion. But it's pretty much exactly the same question I was going to ask. I'm also a retired sparks. Also a landlord. Also need and eicr before April 2021. And although not strictly needed, a cu change, because I'm considering selling in the next year or so, and if I have to have an eicr anyway, I might as well upgrade.

Technically I can easily do it. But same question , --- am I allowed?
Yes, assuming you were a competent sparks and you haven't lost that, then legally you are good to go. Test equipment might be an issue, but I'm sure you can sort something out round that.
For a CU change, the ONLY thing not being a scam member causes you is having to notify it via the LA BC dept - and some of them have silly fees to the point where it's cheaper to employ someone to do it (and put it right to your satisfaction later !)
 
Thanks for those replies.
I'm probably insane, but not senile. ?. Yet.
Might I C3 a C2? Good point. I agree it is possible my tenants could fiddle and shock themselves. They haven't in 14 years -- same tenants, but I admit they could, which is a good reason to change to an rcd cu.

So I can do the eicr legally, but not the cu without paying someone to notify it or pay bc to say I've done a good job. Unfortunately lost touch with any sparks for a favour, although I do know a couple who would do a good job, assuming they havent quit too. I supervised a few who I wouldn't trust to make tea though.

What might I save then if I do it? Not much money at all by the looks of it; so not really worth it even for a tight wad like me lol. My tenants know me and trust me. I grew up in rented housing. I rewired where we lived when I was an apprentice, because the ll wouldn't - the rent was too low. And boy did that need doing. I have high standards. I see the need for eicr's in rentals generally, and notifictaion on works. I doubt I'd be moaning if I wasnt a sparks, or at least a retired one anyway.

Ah well, bite the bullet time then.

Thanks for all the info.
 
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