Electrical advice please. Thank you.

[Violetta]

Hello,

I would like electrical advice please. I recently started a new cleaning job. I have been asked to use a Shark Steamer. The floor I am cleaning is huge. Unfortunately the steam is not sufficient enough to clean the big space. The owner has asked me to chuck water on the floor to help the steamer to get rid of the dirt. This works beautifully, BUT the electrical cable that is attached to the steamer gets quite wet from the water on the floor. I have always been told that electricity and water don’t mix, and I feel worried that this could be dangerous. I don’t want to be electrocuted! I appreciate your help with this. Thank you in advance.

 

[littlespark]

A steam cleaner in itself mixes electricity with water, so small puddles and moisture are expected…. But not great pools.

I don’t know if you can get a battery powered steam cleaner…. But you might need several battery’s to swap out if it’s a really big area.


If you continue using a cleaner with a cable laying in water…. Make it as safe as possible.
Have your machines tested (PAT) and get yourself an RCD plug in adaptor… and make sure you test it via the button before use each time.
The property may itself have rcd protection for the socket you are plugged into, but you would need to trust that it works as it should.

 

[westward10]

Are you using an extension lead with it?

 

[Violetta]

A steam cleaner in itself mixes electricity with water, so small puddles and moisture are expected…. But not great pools.

I don’t know if you can get a battery powered steam cleaner…. But you might need several battery’s to swap out if it’s a really big area.


If you continue using a cleaner with a cable laying in water…. Make it as safe as possible.
Have your machines tested (PAT) and get yourself an RCD plug in adaptor… and make sure you test it via the button before use each time.
The property may itself have rcd protection for the socket you are plugged into, but you would need to trust that it works as it should.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I might have to speak to the owners, as I don’t feel comfortable.

 

[Violetta]

A steam cleaner in itself mixes electricity with water, so small puddles and moisture are expected…. But not great pools.

I don’t know if you can get a battery powered steam cleaner…. But you might need several battery’s to swap out if it’s a really big area.


If you continue using a cleaner with a cable laying in water…. Make it as safe as possible.
Have your machines tested (PAT) and get yourself an RCD plug in adaptor… and make sure you test it via the button before use each time.
The property may itself have rcd protection for the socket you are plugged into, but you would need to trust that it works as it should.

Hi Little Spark, Thank you for your help. I have spoken to the lady I clean for. She doesn’t seem worried, she said it would only cause a problem if the cable was frayed and water would get onto the cable. I have no idea if this is true! She also explained to me that they have an ‘electric shock’ system. But like you say I need to trust that it works like it should be. Frankly I am still feeling worried. Obviously throwing tons of water on the floor is not how the steamer should be used! I am thinking of buying a RCD plug, I hadn’t heard of them until you mentioned them. Just to clarify I would need to test the steamer before each use? How long would this test roughly take? It’s something I will have to mention to the lady I work for. Thank you so much for being so helpful.

 

[Violetta]

Are you using an extension lead with it?

 

[littlespark]

One of these….

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/masterplug-13a-fused-plug-through-active-rcd-adaptor/63731

Press the “test” button before each use…. It simulates a fault and will trip off the power to the appliance. Pressing reset will, obviously, turn power back on.

It doesn’t actually test the appliance in any way, but simply turns off if it detects a fault.

 

[Violetta]

Are you using an extension lead with it?

My apologies I have only just seen your message, I didn’t get an email notification. I am not using an extension lead. Would this help with my situation? I appreciate your help. Thanks!

One of these….

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/masterplug-13a-fused-plug-through-active-rcd-adaptor/63731

Press the “test” button before each use…. It simulates a fault and will trip off the power to the appliance. Pressing reset will, obviously, turn power back on.

It doesn’t actually test the appliance in any way, but simply turns off if it detects a fault.

Thank you! Coincidentally I have a Screwfix very close to me, I will go there tomorrow. I wrongly assumed that it would test the steamer, so where would the fault be that the RCD plug would detect? Sorry complete novice here. I appreciate all your help.

 

[littlespark]

To test the steamer itself, you would need the services of someone that can do portable appliance testing with the correct machine for doing so.... Its much like a car's MOT.... it could break down the day after being tested.

If you are doing any sort of work as either an employee or self employed, then this govt web site is very informative.

PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions

Health and Safety Executive (HSE) answers; frequency of tests, legal requirements, record keeping, new equipment, who can test, hire tools

www.hse.gov.uk

What the RCD adaptor does, and maybe an RCD in the board as well, is trip off when there's a fault... not only protecting the user from electric shock, but also letting the user know something isn't quite right somewhere.

 

[Violetta]

To test the steamer itself, you would need the services of someone that can do portable appliance testing with the correct machine for doing so.... Its much like a car's MOT.... it could break down the day after being tested.

If you are doing any sort of work as either an employee or self employed, then this govt web site is very informative.

PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions

Health and Safety Executive (HSE) answers; frequency of tests, legal requirements, record keeping, new equipment, who can test, hire tools

www.hse.gov.uk

What the RCD adaptor does, and maybe an RCD in the board as well, is trip off when there's a fault... not only protecting the user from electric shock, but also letting the user know something isn't quite right somewhere.

Thank you for all your help, I will have a look at the website. I am in favour of buying the RCD plug, but I am worried about saying that to my employer. They are going to think that I am completely over the top which I guess I am. But I obviously want to stay safe! Out of interest if the steamer’s cable gets wet on a frequent basis, and the steamer develops a fault, what is the worst that could happen to me without any preventative measures like the RCD plug? What is a RCD in the board? Thank you!

 

[littlespark]

An RCD, residual current device, is a device that checks that what electricity is being used on the live cable, is the same as what’s on the neutral.
If there’s a difference, usually stated as 30 milli amps (30/1000th of an amp) then the output side of the device is switched off.
A difference could indicate a live conductor “leaking” electricity to earth…. Making any metallic parts live when they shouldn’t be.

The plug in type might go down to 10mA, but the 30mA will be cheaper, being the most common.

There’s nothing “over the top” about wanting to be safe.

There could be times when you’re using a machine in a property without its own rcd.
I myself carry an rcd adaptor in the van for such situations.

When was the last time they checked the RCDs at the board worked?

 

[Violetta]

An RCD, residual current device, is a device that checks that what electricity is being used on the live cable, is the same as what’s on the neutral.
If there’s a difference, usually stated as 30 milli amps (30/1000th of an amp) then the output side of the device is switched off.
A difference could indicate a live conductor “leaking” electricity to earth…. Making any metallic parts live when they shouldn’t be.

The plug in type might go down to 10mA, but the 30mA will be cheaper, being the most common.

There’s nothing “over the top” about wanting to be safe.

There could be times when you’re using a machine in a property without its own rcd.
I myself carry an rcd adaptor in the van for such situations.

When was the last time they checked the RCDs at the board worked?

Thank you for explaining it all. No idea when they last checked the RCD in their house, and it’s not something I can really ask unfortunately. That’s what worries me, that’s why I am thinking of buying the RCD Adapter. But I feel uncomfortable talking to my employer again. If a metallic part on the steamer is live, and I would accidentally touch it, what would happen? Thank you.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Violetta - I've worked for many years in the regulatory side of product design, and wanted to try and reassure you that it is very very very unlikely, if not impossible, for any random metal part on the steamer to become live (without someone tampering with the machine first!)
The design of the Shark steamer will have been reviewed and tested before it went on the market (and continues to be under surveillance) by an accredited test house to international safety standards. They will have checked that the cable is suitable for the expected environment, likely including puddles of water on the floor. Also that the insulation of the electrical devices inside stand up to the wet environment. There will have been risk assessments done during the design to consider all the things people can possibly think of that might go wrong, and then design improvements made to mitigate risks found. Then they will have independently tested the product for flammability, electrical leakage, mechanical robustness, penetration of objects, moisture etc, electromagnetic compatibility - I could go on...
All the above is taken very seriously by reputable companies, not least because they don't want bad publicity from someone being hurt by their product! Also the cost of a product recall if there is a problem in the design is phenomenal!

The steamer is designed to work with water, and its cable designed to be robust to put up with being steamed, pulled and walked on etc. I don't feel it is helpful to consider the abstract notion that water and electricity are more dangerous in this particular situation than the risks surrounding us all In everyday life.

All that said, accidents do happen, generally as a result of several things going wrong at the same time, which hadn't been foreseen, so fortunately a very rare event.

A risk might arise, for example, from damage to the mains flex, if it got cut through the insulation down to the live conductor, and that made contact with a puddle, there might be a risk of electric shock.

The very sensible suggestion of you using a plug-in RCD has been made, and would protect you from getting a dangerous shock in the event of the cable, or the steamer itself, being used when damaged, or when a fault has developed. I think that additional bit of expenditure will protect you in the very unlikely event of a fault.

 

[Violetta]

Violetta - I've worked for many years in the regulatory side of product design, and wanted to try and reassure you that it is very very very unlikely, if not impossible, for any random metal part on the steamer to become live (without someone tampering with the machine first!)
The design of the Shark steamer will have been reviewed and tested before it went on the market (and continues to be under surveillance) by an accredited test house to international safety standards. They will have checked that the cable is suitable for the expected environment, likely including puddles of water on the floor. Also that the insulation of the electrical devices inside stand up to the wet environment. There will have been risk assessments done during the design to consider all the things people can possibly think of that might go wrong, and then design improvements made to mitigate risks found. Then they will have independently tested the product for flammability, electrical leakage, mechanical robustness, penetration of objects, moisture etc, electromagnetic compatibility - I could go on...
All the above is taken very seriously by reputable companies, not least because they don't want bad publicity from someone being hurt by their product! Also the cost of a product recall if there is a problem in the design is phenomenal!

The steamer is designed to work with water, and its cable designed to be robust to put up with being steamed, pulled and walked on etc. I don't feel it is helpful to consider the abstract notion that water and electricity are more dangerous in this particular situation than the risks surrounding us all In everyday life.

All that said, accidents do happen, generally as a result of several things going wrong at the same time, which hadn't been foreseen, so fortunately a very rare event.

A risk might arise, for example, from damage to the mains flex, if it got cut through the insulation down to the live conductor, and that made contact with a puddle, there might be a risk of electric shock.

The very sensible suggestion of you using a plug-in RCD has been made, and would protect you from getting a dangerous shock in the event of the cable, or the steamer itself, being used when damaged, or when a fault has developed. I think that additional bit of expenditure will protect you in the very unlikely event of a fault.

Hi Avo, apologies for slow reply. Thank you very much for your detailed reply. What has worried me the most that my employer is asking me to put tons of water on the floor in order for the steamer to work better. An unusual practice I am guessing. I would imagine most people use the steamer without throwing water on the floor. I don’t understand your second to last paragraph, could you kindly explain. I guess my fear is that I have always been told that electricity and water don’t mix well, and when I see the electrical cable on the floor pretty wet, it scares me. I do appreciate your reassurance.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I don’t understand your second to last paragraph, could you kindly explain.

I was saying an electric cable lying in water is not of itself unsafe. Think of the many many cables under wet ground all around the world supplying houses with electricity!
I wanted to put the case that a cable in water (suitable for it) is not a bad thing, or something to be frightened of, but if the cable gets damaged that becomes a different matter.
I had two mains powered pond pumps, and their long mains cables lived happily under water with the fish for many years.

Your Shark flexible cable has an outer covering of plastic insulation, then inside that are the two or three wires, each of which is covered with their own insulation of different colour.
If your Shark flex were to get so damaged or cut/abraded through the outer insulation that you could see coloured wires inside, that is a potential hazard and you must stop using it. You still wouldn't get a shock, but there's now a greater risk.
If further damage should occur there could be a bare live wire, which could give you a shock if you touched it.
However if the RCD plug previously discussed was in use in this situation, it would disconnect the power before you got a serious shock.

Just as an example - I've seen an upright vacuum cleaner that had sucked up it's own flex, and on rescuing the wire, the outer covering of the cable had been rubbed away and you could see the insulated wires inside. The vacuum had to be taken out of service and a new flex fitted. But still nobody would have got a shock from it.

I guess my fear is that I have always been told that electricity and water don’t mix well, and when I see the electrical cable on the floor pretty wet, it scares me. I do appreciate your reassurance.

What you've been told is true. I wonder if the worry stems from thinking that having the Shark cable in water is itself "mixing water and electricity", which it isn't (until the cable becomes damaged or broken, at which time it is!)
I would say that the aim of the people who designed and manufactured the Shark cleaner would have been to make sure electricity and water never mixed in their product, but they would say responsibility for maintaining the cable in good condition lies with the user.

I'll stop being an Engineer, and I must apologise for the verbose replies.

At the end of the day if you are still fearful of the very wet floors with the Shark steamer, you really should make that clear to your employer.

 

[Violetta]

I was saying an electric cable lying in water is not of itself unsafe. Think of the many many cables under wet ground all around the world supplying houses with electricity!
I wanted to put the case that a cable in water (suitable for it) is not a bad thing, or something to be frightened of, but if the cable gets damaged that becomes a different matter.
I had two mains powered pond pumps, and their long mains cables lived happily under water with the fish for many years.

Your Shark flexible cable has an outer covering of plastic insulation, then inside that are the two or three wires, each of which is covered with their own insulation of different colour.
If your Shark flex were to get so damaged or cut/abraded through the outer insulation that you could see coloured wires inside, that is a potential hazard and you must stop using it. You still wouldn't get a shock, but there's now a greater risk.
If further damage should occur there could be a bare live wire, which could give you a shock if you touched it.
However if the RCD plug previously discussed was in use in this situation, it would disconnect the power before you got a serious shock.

Just as an example - I've seen an upright vacuum cleaner that had sucked up it's own flex, and on rescuing the wire, the outer covering of the cable had been rubbed away and you could see the insulated wires inside. The vacuum had to be taken out of service and a new flex fitted. But still nobody would have got a shock from it.


What you've been told is true. I wonder if the worry stems from thinking that having the Shark cable in water is itself "mixing water and electricity", which it isn't (until the cable becomes damaged or broken, at which time it is!)
I would say that the aim of the people who designed and manufactured the Shark cleaner would have been to make sure electricity and water never mixed in their product, but they would say responsibility for maintaining the cable in good condition lies with the user.

I'll stop being an Engineer, and I must apologise for the verbose replies.

At the end of the day if you are still fearful of the very wet floors with the Shark steamer, you really should make that clear to your employer.

Thank you very much. I spoke to my employer last week, she said it would only become an issue if the cable was frayed, exactly what you kindly explained. She said that they have an ‘electric shock’ system in the house. But as another gentleman in this forum said, I would have to rely on this system to work properly. Hence I would ideally like to get a RCD adapter as a back up plan, but I feel worried to bring the subject up for a second time with my employer. I don’t want them to get funny with me. That’s why I am trying to educate myself, so hopefully my anxiety will dissipate. So the cable shouldn’t give me a shock, unless the cable is damaged with colourful wires showing. Hope I am understanding you correctly, I am a complete novice. How could the actual steamer give me a shock? I do appreciate your help.

 

[Avo Mk8]

That’s why I am trying to educate myself, so hopefully my anxiety will dissipate.

It's very good you are interested to find out, and I hope it helps to alleviate your worries, but it's good to be aware of hazards and keep a look out for them

So the cable shouldn’t give me a shock, unless the cable is damaged with colourful wires showing.

Correct. Technically, even with the coloured wires showing, it will not give you a shock. But you would be one step away from any further damage, say the live (brown) wire, making the conductor inside bare, and touching that would give you a shock.

Hope I am understanding you correctly, I am a complete novice.

You are doing well following my ramblings

How could the actual steamer give me a shock? I do appreciate your help.

I don't believe the steamer can give you a shock - it certainly is designed not to. But if the Shark gets broken, eg physical pieces shatter or come apart or bits fall off revealing the workings then it's time to stop using it!

 

[Violetta]

It's very good you are interested to find out, and I hope it helps to alleviate your worries, but it's good to be aware of hazards and keep a look out for them

Correct. Technically, even with the coloured wires showing, it will not give you a shock. But you would be one step away from any further damage, say the live (brown) wire, making the conductor inside bare, and touching that would give you a shock.

You are doing well following my ramblings

I don't believe the steamer can give you a shock - it certainly is designed not to. But if the Shark gets broken, eg physical pieces shatter or come apart or bits fall off revealing the workings then it's time to stop using it!

Thank you for all your help. Electricity is an interesting topic. You do not ramble! I certainly feel better now. Just got to keep an eye on the cable, and hope that the steamer doesn’t fall apart.