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  1. Christopher Parkinson
    Offline

    Christopher Parkinson DIY

    Location:
    Rugby
    Hi all,

    (First post and I'm not an electrician).

    I'm trying to manufacture a sunbed. By picking the brains of the very helpful and knowledgeable people at UV logistics I now know what electrical parts are needed and they can supply. Cad/cam drawings for the bed are done. I now need an electrical designer to design the wiring harness.

    Is this a specialised job? Would I need someone who knows about sunbeds already? Where would I go to find the right person?

    Thanks in advance for your help.

    Cheers Chris
     
  2. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Who's changing my Avatar? Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Hi, welcome to the forum, this kind of design wouldn't fall under the BS7671 to which the forum and most members are knowledged in having said that we do have many members that may be able to help and offer direction and/or advice.
    I suspect this would fall under the machine control directory BS60204 although I am happy to be corrected on that.
    I would suspect there are some pretty strict regulations surrounding sunbeds given they can cause serious damage if the malfunction, this is not a project you should be trying to do yourself here, you will need someone to come in design and commission the controls and take responsibility for the safety of the bed.
    Is this for personal use or are you intending others to use it in say a commercial/business manner?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Christopher Parkinson
    Offline

    Christopher Parkinson DIY

    Location:
    Rugby
    Hi, It's a commercial proposition. It will be a 10 lamp sunbed for home use that I will be selling. I'm going to manufacture it myself by subcontracting out all the fabrication and I will just screw the thing together. Cad/cam drawing are all done.

    The strict regulations I think you are talking about are for regulating the output of UV. I have that in hand. I will make sure that the bed is what is called 0.3 compliant.

    Here is a youtube videos which gives an idea of what is involved in the wiring:
    "Changing a lamp holder on a tanning bed". You can see the wiring at 1.10 then 1.19. The T12 lamp holder I will be getting is different to those shown in the video because it's a lamp holder/starter holder combined.


    The lamp supplier will supply all the correct lamps, and lamp holders, starters and ballast for those lamps. So I think the circuit is this: mains, timer, ballast, lamp holders/starters. The lamp holders are lamp holder/starter holder combined.

    I think the wiring harness is a pretty simple thing to design for someone who knows what they are doing but I'm not looking to make any short cuts. I want to find someone who is properly qualified to do this.

    Cheers Chris
     
  4. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    So you are planning to sell this product in the UK .......... you need to seek out all the approvals etc first ............. its not so simple as bolting it together ........
     
  5. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Who's changing my Avatar? Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    The UV output was not what I was discussing here, what you are doing is trying to produce a product on a budget, how are you going to raise a CE mark and ensure it is both mechanically and electrically safe, anyone with basic knowledge could probably design and get working a crude control but it will be extremely unlikely to comply with industry regulations.
    There will be no question in my mind that you have to employ an element of fail safe into the design, if you solely wanted this for personal use you may get around skipping all the hoops you have to jump through to legally sell this product, but trying to build and design it for commercial reasons would require a much larger input of time and money and compliance with all local and EU regulations that this bed will fall under, what particularly scares me here is you are trying to do this through YouTube vids and Forum Q&A, you really need to employ a fully compliant person/company to design the control system and who are able to sign off their part in the design and add weight to your later attempt to get it CE stamped, this is likely to blow your budget out of the water and is the reason why many good ideas and products never get to market stage.
    There would be too many questions to ask and I'm sure the answers you give will just inflate that number, so as a forum we really can only offer safe advice and unfortunately this will not be advice on how to design the electrical controls, harnesses etc, my personal advice is if you want to get this to market is look for companies/persons who design and commission control systems who will be fully knowledged in safety standards, supplying all the relevant documentation, wiring plans etc and will put their name to the design, you will then need to bring in a third party if they cannot do it themselves to CE mark your product this may involve rigorous testing and forced failure electrically and mechanically to test the limitations of your product.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
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  6. Christopher Parkinson
    Offline

    Christopher Parkinson DIY

    Location:
    Rugby
    Thanks for your valuable input. I'm on a learning curve so youtube vids and Q & A on here are just the first part of the curve. I'm not asking forum members to design the harness on here. At this stage forum members will know a lot more about what's involved in getting this done. I'm just trying to get a little bit further along.

    So thanks for giving me some excellent information which makes me a little bit wiser. So if I have understood you correctly I need to find a person/company to design it. That is what I was asking for in my first post. Where do I look for such a person/company and what qualifications must they have?

    Then I have to get a CE mark. It looks like that is the next area I need to research. Here is a good page to start with:
    CE Marking: CE mark approval, CE testing, CE mark requirements, how achieve them all for my product? - http://www.ce-marking.org/how-obtain.html
    From a cursory reading (I will do a lot more research when I have time) there is something called minimal risk:
    "
    Options for products with minimal risk include self certification where the manufacturer prepares a Declaration of Conformity and affixes the CE Marking to their own product. "

    So I need to find out what "minimal risk" means. The sunbed will be a very simple thing with only 10 lamps and I'm told that it should not draw a lot of amps. So maybe I fall under that category. I guess I would need to get someone to prepare the "Declaration of Conformity" for me.

    So thanks for your input. I'm a little bit wiser and know a bit more about where to research. If anyone has more suggestions I would very much appreciate your input.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Spoon
    Offline

    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Just to add to the above, seeing that you are "manufacturing" these sunbeds, you will also have to CE mark your product as well as making sure all products you are purchasing that are imported are CE marked and safe.
    "The importer is always responsible for ensuring product certification and consumer safety compliance when bringing in products. It would simply be too hard for government authorities to enforce compliance in a foreign country – China included. This puts a lot of weight on the importers shoulders."
    You will have lots of fun getting all the correct paperwork for this.
     
    • Like Like x 2
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  8. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Beware CE can stand for Chinese excrement
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. davesparks
    Offline

    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Surrounding a person with 10 lamps and the associated wiring and control gear at mains voltage doesn’t sound like minimal risk to me.
    Possible risks from a fault are electric shock or burns from overheated components.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Rpa07
    Offline

    Rpa07 3000 posts - only 50554 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    I’m interested to know your background in that your entrepreneurial side has no idea about the product you want to manufacture yet has been around for years!
    Why not just import complete units to sell on as a business, they will have been manufactured to a standard that you will be able to sell on.
    All the time saved you can use working on your tan.
    Not being rude but it sounds like a round object to be placed on an axel is being thought about.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Spoon
    Offline

    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    I think the OP is hoping to make lots of money by manufacturing the sunbeds himself... Unfortunately for him, he hasn't considered the cost of getting the sunbeds compliant with all the standards... and as @darkwood@darkwood has already said in his post above "this is likely to blow your budget out of the water and is the reason why many good ideas and products never get to market stage."
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  12. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    could always get Rodney Trotter to test the sunbeds.
     
  13. darkwood
    Offline

    darkwood Who's changing my Avatar? Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    @Christopher Parkingson
    'Options for products with minimal risk include self certification where the manufacturer prepares a Declaration of Conformity and affixes the CE Marking to their own product.'

    I think your been a little naive here, a sunbed is definitely not a product that falls in minimal risk, there are tens of thousands of cases of injuries, burns and even death caused by sunbeds, this is not something you can push through on a minimal risk level.
    Also if you want my opinion I think you are flogging a dead horse here, predictions are for better summers, also sunbeds are a bit of a trend/fashion, many are now turning to alternatives with lower risks to get a tan.
    You also have a uphill struggle as local regulation and national regulations continue to tighten there grip on this industry, I seriously hope you are not ploughing your life earnings into this as you are making a big gamble on an industry that has seen the tide turn and is in decline, the UK market has been falling since 2013 and the likes of the USA has also seen similar declines, the sunbed trend is no longer as we see shelves flooded with affordable, non streak tanning products so I would think very carefully about continuing and trying to take on the big industries in a fastly declining market.

    Good luck either way.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Christopher Parkinson
    Offline

    Christopher Parkinson DIY

    Location:
    Rugby
    mmmm..... Lots of negativity on here. Just wondering if it's a standard trait of electricians.;)

    Rest assured that the sunbeds will be safe. Regardless of regulations which I will make sure I comply with of course. I may not have much of a clue now but I guarantee that by the time I'm finished I will be an absolute expert on the subject.
     
  15. Christopher Parkinson
    Offline

    Christopher Parkinson DIY

    Location:
    Rugby
    Just found someone in the industry to design and make the wiring harness for me. No doubt they will tell me everything I need to know about getting compliant. I learned a bit more on here and got a little further along. So thanks to all for our input (even the negative stuff).
     
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