First house, want to retrofit Underfloor Heating. Many Questions

[rolyberkin]

With with a floating floor, I'm told by many that there's absolutely no requirement for screed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BpH65IsNy0

UFH is good when you are well insulated from below and are warming a large slab of screed to work as a thermal store at low heat, it is good, I have two rooms where I have it.

I haven't used this stuff but it will add a significant depth to your existing floors, this will have to go all through the house or you will have steps to trip up and down. Self-leveling compound isn't really self-leveling, you will have to get someone in to do it properly it has to be levelled properly using a float, it is expensive to buy and to level.

To fit this stuff properly you will have to take off all your skirting boards and architrave and refit all of your doors. there is not much of a thermal store in a few cm's of compound so in effect you will be using it like a radiator in any case. To fit a wet central heating system a plumber will be in and out in a couple of days, job done, nice and toasty!

 

[Midwest]

Sadly we don't plan to use it as a daily...more of a cetre piece when we have guests over.

I don't know what it is, i just really hate rediators, they take up space, are complete eyesores and far from efficient. This is why it's hard for me to throw my plans for ufh out and fit radiators. My wife's from South Korea, where radiators just don't exist, when she first came to the uk 7 years ago, she didn't realise they were actually used for anything more than vintage designing, lol. Visiting her family so many times, i've been spoiled experiencing really efficient ufh, it's so nice on the feet.

We have a multi fuel burner. Small one, but sufficient to heat our moderately sized living room. We turn the CH down at night (or I do) and just use the burner to keep us nice & warm. Again, your have to think of your heating design. Any multi fuel burner over 5kw needs some ventilation.

As stated several times here, wet UFH in an existing property will require considerable disruption & expense. It's your money, but I'm sure that can easily be spent on the refurbishment of your new acquisition. Create a spending plan for all the other projects you will have on your refurbishment, and see what penny's you have left.

Modern radiators are more efficient these days, and include some attractive modern designs, if that's your style.

 

[davesparks]

With with a floating floor, I'm told by many that there's absolutely no requirement for screed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BpH65IsNy0

They are right, there is no requirement to screed over the pipes in those systems. But to get a system which works well you will want to bury the pipes in screed with a thick insulation layer under the pipes

 

[sean_ork]

No screed = no thermal mass = fast heat up + fast cool down = bad

Screed or concrete slab with wet UFH embedded with + 250mm insulation below + 50mm perimeter = slow heat up + slow cool down = very good

Please don't consider electric heating unless you massively insulate the entire house - leccy heating is popular with landlords as its cheapish and quick to install with minimal disruption - but its not the landlord that will be paying the ongoing bills.

 

[davesparks]

No screed = no thermal mass = fast heat up + fast cool down = bad

Screed or concrete slab with wet UFH embedded with + 250mm insulation below + 50mm perimeter = slow heat up + slow cool down = very good

Please don't consider electric heating unless you massively insulate the entire house - leccy heating is popular with landlords as its cheapish and quick to install with minimal disruption - but its not the landlord that will be paying the ongoing bills.

Plus electric heating has its active elements under the floor which can go faulty and require a massive effort to dig it up to fix it.
Wet systems only have a pipe under the floor with all the active components at the manifold, much easier to fix if it hoes wrong

 

[Midwest]

Don't think we are going to convince the OP against ufh. Think he's been advised as best as we can.

 

[sean_ork]

Don't think we are going to convince the OP against ufh. Think he's been advised as best as we can.

Nothing wrong with UFH, as long as its the right type, and done as a combined job of installing lots and lots of insulation, and a fair bit of digging down.

 

[Midwest]

Nothing wrong with UFH, as long as its the right type, and done as a combined job of installing lots and lots of insulation, and a fair bit of digging down.

Not disagreeing, if you've read my other posts. Just not realistically achievable with this property.

 

[sean_ork]

Not disagreeing, if you've read my other posts. Just not realistically achievable with this property.

There's nothing structurally preventing proper wet UFH being installed, thats just money, effort and time - perhaps the disruption and need to have it all in with 2 months makes doing the job properly unrealistic.

 

[Midwest]

There's nothing structurally preventing proper wet UFH being installed, thats just money, effort and time - perhaps the disruption and need to have it all in with 2 months makes doing the job properly unrealistic.

Give me strength!

 

[davesparks]

There's nothing structurally preventing proper wet UFH being installed, thats just money, effort and time - perhaps the disruption and need to have it all in with 2 months makes doing the job properly unrealistic.

How do you know that there's nothing structurally preventing it? With the age of the building there may be very limited foundations which may then require underpinning before the floors can be dug out far enough to get a concrete slab cast to then get a thick enough insulation layer down.

 

[sean_ork]

How do you know that there's nothing structurally preventing it? With the age of the building there may be very limited foundations which may then require underpinning before the floors can be dug out far enough to get a concrete slab cast to then get a thick enough insulation layer down.

My point is that it's a fairly normal house, its structurally indentical to 100,000s of other, there's nothing to stop UFH being installed, it almost certainly will have shallow founds - but that's nothing that hasn't been resolved before, just needs time effort and disruption - MW implied that UFH just wasn't "realistically achievable" which certainly isn't right, but will need a change of view by the home owner.

Any type of UFH, or any other form of space heating with no associated insulation and air tightness work is pointless, unless they like big bills.

I'm hoping the OP extends his timescales and does the job properly - remembering that you only pay once to do the job properly, you'll be forever paying high energy bills if you install a thermally compromised solution.

 

[telectrix]

i heard today that they're scrapping the original Enterprise 1701. dylithium crystals now on ebay . power and heat for 300 years.:grinningelf:

 

[davesparks]

My point is that it's a fairly normal house, its structurally indentical to 100,000s of other,

How can you tell that? As far as I can tell it's a 1920's built converted schoolhouse with a thatched roof in Wiltshire.
So it is not going to be like a fairly normal house as most normal houses weren't built as schools and thatch roofs are not all that common except in isolat dare as of the country.

 

[sean_ork]

I can tell as much as you can, it is not a unique structure - it is suitable for retro fitting UFH of the type I have described.

 

[Midwest]

MW implied that UFH just wasn't "realistically achievable" which certainly isn't right, but will need a change of view by the home owner.

I'm hoping the OP extends his timescales and does the job properly - remembering that you only pay once to do the job properly, you'll be forever paying high energy bills if you install a thermally compromised solution.

I do not have a negative view of the system, I would consider it's installation in a property of my own. But I wouldn't consider it, if I had to pay to remove an existing screed floor, pay for the accumulated waste to be disposed and then pay for someone to reinstate the finished floor. As someone else mentioned, there is also the ancillary cost of reinstating wood finishes etc. I'm guessing at £800-900 per average room? That's why I said, in my opinion, it was not realistically achievable.

In a property of this age, the existing finished floor and sub floor, may well be in need of renovation. Then it might be viable.

It is up to the OP how he spends his money, but he does mention at least once, he has financial limitations. Anything is achievable, as long as you have deep pockets.

 

[sean_ork]

It is up to the OP how he spends his money, but he does mention at least once, he has financial limitations. Anything is achievable, as long as you have deep pockets.

He said he's got 10k to spend on boiler, UFH and laminate - that's fairly healthy just for that element of the works, obvioulsy that will change if he does the job properly.

He's also said that this will be their forever home - that's a signicant statement - they will be paying energy bills forever.

What's the point of throwing in a cheap to install, cripplingly expensive to run heating system now - you only pay for a proper job the once, you'll be paying energy bills forever.

You are correct, it is the OPs money not ours to spend for him.

 

[sean_ork]

...well beyond my expertise.

What's the EPC rating of your new home ?

 

[Midwest]

He said he's got 10k to spend on boiler, UFH and laminate - that's fairly healthy just for that element of the works, obvioulsy that will change if he does the job properly.

He's also said that this will be their forever home - that's a signicant statement - they will be paying energy bills forever.

What's the point of throwing in a cheap to install, cripplingly expensive to run heating system now - you only pay for a proper job the once, you'll be paying energy bills forever.

You are correct, it is the OPs money not ours to spend for him.

By my calculations and guesstimate, that's about 5k on digging up & putting back the floor.

 

[sean_ork]

By my calculations and guesstimate, that's about 5k on digging up & putting back the floor.

This is rather pointless, the OP has stated he's happy to do some relatively unskilled tasks - and its never been suggested that the system I've mentioned would fit within his stated budget - do a job once and do it right, its their forever home, that's my point.