Flexible Conduit (N.Bundy job)

[davesparks]

containment was designed to house single insulated cable ?

twin and earth was designed with its own incorporated an outer sheath so to be ‘clipped direct’

so why are we bothering to contain twin and earth cable

???

Containment was/is designed to house cables, all types of cables, not just single insulated cables.

Why not put T&E in containment where there is a lot of it going the same way?

Lots of cables incorporate an outer sheath allowing clipped direct installation but are installed in or on containment regularly.
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The old house I grew up in was wired in the 50s with VIR and buckle clips

Which proves that cowboys were at large in the 50's just as much as they are today.
VIR was/is single insulated cable and should always have been inside conduit/trunking, clipping it direct was no more compliant then than singles clipped direct woukd be today.

The predecessors to modern T&E were suitable for clipped direct installation such as lead sheathed rubber insulated cable or TRS sheathed rubber insulated cable.

 

[pirate]

I don't consider myself as old-fashioned, but i do like to use buckle clips in certain situations, and the installation can look very neat-plus the clips won't melt like plastic ones in a fire. I also like the range of sizes, which caters for different sizes of cable.
My choice for clipped direct T&E would be Linian clips which are even less obtrusive than buckle clips, and drilling the holes is less of a stress on the substrate than hammering, if for example you are clipping to battens between joists/rafters where the battens flex near the mid-point. On plasterboard, a neat drilled hole and a Linian clip will provide a dent-free finish (compared with my rather poor hammer accuracy) and a firmer fix too, and on brick it is easier than hammering in a nail for the plastic clips and provides a neater finish, imho.

 

[Pete999]

I don't consider myself as old-fashioned, but i do like to use buckle clips in certain situations, and the installation can look very neat-plus the clips won't melt like plastic ones in a fire. I also like the range of sizes, which caters for different sizes of cable.
My choice for clipped direct T&E would be Linian clips which are even less obtrusive than buckle clips, and drilling the holes is less of a stress on the substrate than hammering, if for example you are clipping to battens between joists/rafters where the battens flex near the mid-point. On plasterboard, a neat drilled hole and a Linian clip will provide a dent-free finish (compared with my rather poor hammer accuracy) and a firmer fix too, and on brick it is easier than hammering in a nail for the plastic clips and provides a neater finish, imho.

Worse than the plastic jobbies imho.

 

[pirate]

Pete999, plastic jobbies are better than both buckle and Linian?
Or better than buckle?
Or better than Linian?
Why not use fire-proof clips everywhere, instead of those ugly plastic jobbies?
I'm not criticising your opinion, just curious and keen to hear others.

 

[davesparks]

Worse than the plastic jobbies imho.

Why? Just because they are new and therfore can't be as good as anything old? Or do you have another reason?

 

[UNG]

Might be considered neater. Could take up less space if properly thought out. Allows for future boarding of that garage ceiling.

It's not necessary, but might be something to discuss with a customer when quoting for a job. Some will be happy with clipped cables, but others might prefer paying more to place them out of sight.

Is it not normal to discuss with the customer what they actually want including how visible cable runs will be routed?

I doubt it's quite so clear cut. Certainly an apprenticeship should provide more opportunities to learn a craft, but plenty of people time served tradespeople don't seem to care much for attention to detail. People will either have the inclination to do things to a decent standard or they wont. The rough electrical work I grew up around was installed long before faster routes were available into the trade.

I'm wondering how long you think quick routes into the trade have been around back when I started it wasn't uncommon for electrician's mates to be made up to electricians having done 10 - 15 years as a mate. The government skill centres "trained" electricians in six months back in the late 70's until they were privatised in the 90's. So it is not as new as you possibly think

 

[ipf]

I'm wondering how long you think quick routes into the trade have been around back when I started it wasn't uncommon for electrician's mates to be made up to electricians having done 10 - 15 years as a mate. The government skill centres "trained" electricians in six months back in the late 70's until they were privatised in the 90's. So it is not as new as you possibly think

It was nothing like as common as it is today, though.
As regards 'mates', their were occasional labourers who worked their way up.....and plenty I knew were good, in different sections of the trade, with their work and experience. I'm sure a hell of a lot of 'em would sail through today's requirements to be 'qualified'.
Just do a regs course and there you go....if you can read and write

 

[nicebutdim]

Which proves that cowboys were at large in the 50's just as much as they are today.
VIR was/is single insulated cable and should always have been inside conduit/trunking, clipping it direct was no more compliant then than singles clipped direct woukd be today.

The predecessors to modern T&E were suitable for clipped direct installation such as lead sheathed rubber insulated cable or TRS sheathed rubber insulated cable.

To be clear, the only cable that was accessible was in the roof space. I may be wrongly labelling it as VIR as it had an outer sheath over the insulation, but both layers were some form of rubber.

 

[UNG]

Just do a regs course and there you go....if you can read and write

I thought it was read and guess, multiple choice gives you a one in four chance of getting the right answer

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't consider myself as old-fashioned, but i do like to use buckle clips in certain situations, and the installation can look very neat-plus the clips won't melt like plastic ones in a fire. I also like the range of sizes, which caters for different sizes of cable.
My choice for clipped direct T&E would be Linian clips which are even less obtrusive than buckle clips, and drilling the holes is less of a stress on the substrate than hammering, if for example you are clipping to battens between joists/rafters where the battens flex near the mid-point. On plasterboard, a neat drilled hole and a Linian clip will provide a dent-free finish (compared with my rather poor hammer accuracy) and a firmer fix too, and on brick it is easier than hammering in a nail for the plastic clips and provides a neater finish, imho.

Those clips from Linian are interesting and a very simple, yet practical design. If they weren't so hugely expensive, compared to traditional clips, they'd probably be well on their way to leading the market.