From a non solar guy, does this look OK

[sedgy34]

Well done TC get them off the streets

 

[sedgy34]

While i am on could i send out a big thank you to Sedgy34 for PM to give me his mobile number and helped with testing of solar for my EICR. Top Man!

Please dont im blushing
:blush5: lol

 

[moggy1968]

OMG!! where to start!!
connection at the CU is just wrong, too much to list. Penetration through roof felt, not part of your check but it looks like they have just punched a hole through the felt, lazy breech of the regs, they shoiuld have come through the overlap, bet there's no protection for the cables rubbing on tiles either. All that cabling hanging out the bottom of the meter is against regs as it's only single insulated. We use a jewis box under the meter to do earth connection and house stripped cable.
All cables need to be clipped in place and then cut to length.
labels need to be in place on isolators and inverter but also along the DC cable to show it's DC not coax.
there's probably more but thats all I dare look at at the moment for fear of my heart!
One of the shabiest jobs I've seen!

fetch dobbin, got to move onto the next job now!!

 

[sedgy34]

No name on it anywhere! That's a surprise! Have informed the owners and they are going to get in touch with firm.

HEY TC are you able to find out who were the installers are of this, im sure theres quite a few on here now intrigued about this company after seeing that.

 

[sedgy34]

OMG!! where to start!!
connection at the CU is just wrong, too much to list. Penetration through roof felt, not part of your check but it looks like they have just punched a hole through the felt, lazy breech of the regs, they shoiuld have come through the overlap, bet there's no protection for the cables rubbing on tiles either. All that cabling hanging out the bottom of the meter is against regs as it's only single insulated. We use a jewis box under the meter to do earth connection and house stripped cable.
All cables need to be clipped in place and then cut to length.
labels need to be in place on isolators and inverter but also along the DC cable to show it's DC not coax.
there's probably more but thats all I dare look at at the moment for fear of my heart!
One of the shabiest jobs I've seen!

ha ha lol same here

 

[Top Cat]

HEY TC are you able to find out who were the installers are of this, im sure theres quite a few on here now intrigued about this company after seeing that.

Hi sedgy, i will find out if i can but as you know its a big organisation that own this house and a lot of properties (don't want to say on the forum).

Not sure to post name of solar company if i find out name, lynching mobs were outlawed years ago!

 

[moggy1968]

I believe a sound thrashing with a length of DC cable is still permitted though, at least thats what I tell the boys!!

 

[dansk]

looks like a classic rent a roof job - shameful, and most customers would be none the wiser - sad init?

 

[sedgy34]

Hi sedgy, i will find out if i can but as you know its a big organisation that own this house and a lot of properties (don't want to say on the forum).

Not sure to post name of solar company if i find out name, lynching mobs were outlawed years ago!

Pm me when you do find out as I know a guy who had a lot of renta roof work through a surveyor (as they say it's who you know)

 

[Earthstore]

that spaghetti looks like coax.

And this is the problem, I do not know telectrix, but judging by his posts he is a good electrician and he thinks it looks like coax, so what would joe public make of this? oh it is just old coax, snip, maybe 700v DC that is going to hurt...

As installs go, this is about as bad as you will get, nothing is labeled, connected to supply wrong, all the cables are a mess, (Tower will not get rich from these guys)
The surprising thing is it is working, did anyone notice how much lower the generation meter is to the inverter reading?

Well TC you have your work cut out there...

 

[Top Cat]

And this is the problem, I do not know telectrix, but judging by his posts he is a good electrician and he thinks it looks like coax, so what would joe public make of this? oh it is just old coax, snip, maybe 700v DC that is going to hurt...

As installs go, this is about as bad as you will get, nothing is labeled, connected to supply wrong, all the cables are a mess, (Tower will not get rich from these guys)
The surprising thing is it is working, did anyone notice how much lower the generation meter is to the inverter reading?

Well TC you have your work cut out there...

Trouble is, is that i work for a builder that reports to a surveyor that reports to the owners! Have been told that they will get in touch with the installers but they are the sort of people that will just say "oh you just sort it out"!
Now i know a little less than SFAll about solar, but i know how to clip cables! If i get the job i may be back on here asking for advice! Mind you i don't know how i would come off if i touched it? Got to be a minefield out there if you mess with it and you are not registered. Any thoughts on that?:thinking:

 

[Earthstore]

Most of a PV system is not rocket science, this is just very poor workmanship.

What would you say if you saw an electrician rewiring a house to this standard? I am sure that it goes on, but PV is supposed to be a regulated industry, the problem is nobody seems to regulate it.

My opinion here would be that you could tidy up the wires, but you should not alter the wiring where the illegal connection to the supply has been made, you should be MCS accredited for that (for what it is worth), also the system must be labeled up correctly, and I would imagine that you do not have a glovebox full of them in your van.
Whatever you do though, it might be best not to put your name to it, you do not want to end up responsible for this mess.

Turn it off if you are working on it though, AC first then DC, to turn it on DC then AC,
this reduces the DC load so keeps the DC arcing in the switches to a minimum, or just turn it all off at night.

 

[SolarCity]

Utterly pathetic. We all make mistakes but this whole install shows an utter lack of effort.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'll bet their QMS is top-notch.

 

[Earthstore]

Utterly pathetic. We all make mistakes but this whole install shows an utter lack of effort.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'll bet their QMS is top-notch.

But this is what our Government want, "driving down the price of Solar", and this is what you get... total CARP....
Probably an install done for a price, installers working on a price..

 

[Gavin A]

Trouble is, is that i work for a builder that reports to a surveyor that reports to the owners! Have been told that they will get in touch with the installers but they are the sort of people that will just say "oh you just sort it out"!
Now i know a little less than SFAll about solar, but i know how to clip cables! If i get the job i may be back on here asking for advice! Mind you i don't know how i would come off if i touched it? Got to be a minefield out there if you mess with it and you are not registered. Any thoughts on that?:thinking:

It'd class as a dangerous installation in my book, so IMO you're actually obliged to sort it out, being the last electrician in.

Although actually, it does involve the DNO's kit, which we're all not meant to be touching, so technically you probably should be getting the DNO to remove the additional cable from their fuse, then you can install the tails blocks in the right place. I doubt the other company got the DNO to do the work though...

 

[StuSpiers]

Put it on your eicr inform who you have too then wash your hands of it.

I have masses of solar experience having worked as an installations manager round the country have all the quals you can get but I still dont touch solar in the field now as I am no longer in the industry and hence have no Mcs.

 

[Gavin A]

Put it on your eicr inform who you have too then wash your hands of it.

I have masses of solar experience having worked as an installations manager round the country have all the quals you can get but I still dont touch solar in the field now as I am no longer in the industry and hence have no Mcs.

you don't need MCS though to be allowed legally to work on solar, only Part P if it's in a house.

MCS is only for claiming the feed in tariff.

 

[sedgy34]

thats why we are looking at these pics

 

[StuSpiers]

you don't need MCS though to be allowed legally to work on solar, only Part P if it's in a house.

MCS is only for claiming the feed in tariff.

Yes but to rectify this he would require mcs as in my opinion the whole lot needs stripping out and redoing.

Chances are the roof is a mess too.

 

[moggy1968]

You don't need MCS to do that, just competency (although you wonder about that sometimes!). Thats why all these subbbies are doing it without MCS. As above, MCS is just to get the fIts. as you aren't materially altering the installation (changing the inverter or panels) you don't need to be MCS to tidy this mess up. If it is rent a roof though you'll need to obtain permission from the owner of the equipment. You would be within your rights to shut it down if you think it's dangerous in it's current condition.

'clipping cable is time consuming you see, so to get the price down lets not bother and bang the job out as quickly as we can, maybe then we can do 2 a day seen as the rates are so bad now'

Thats the way the industry is going I'm afraid, and as long as we keep shooting ourselves in the foot by driving prices down the more this is going to happen.

I've just priced a 4kW job up today. cutting my margins so they are barely above general electrical work, using Yingli panels and an SMA 3600TL I can get it down to £7999.
Thats taking 2 days to do a nice job. clay tiles so we'll need quite a bit of lead. HOuse so we need scaffold. OUtside cable run in plastic conduit.
No way can I get down to the sort of figures mentioned elsewhere on here without compromising things I'm not prepared to compromise on.

 

[MickF]

Just a thought ... if that meter is actually the landlords, installed as a sub-meter after the suppliers, and the landlord is billing the tenant, it could be in the right place...

 

[Top Cat]

Just a thought ... if that meter is actually the landlords, installed as a sub-meter after the suppliers, and the landlord is billing the tenant, it could be in the right place...

No that is supply authority meter.

 

[Top Cat]

Still doing the EICR on this. This is what i have put down:-
(1) Solar meter wired incorrectly (wired before not after electricity board meter) Code C3
(2) No warning labels by distribution board or in roof space Code C2
(3) Single insulated cables showing going in to solar meter Code C3
(4) Cables from solar panels left in looped coils in loft and not clipped Code C2
Any thoughts on this? Anyone not seen this post you will need to see pictures on page 2 of post

 

[telectrix]

i might be inclined to downgrade your C2's to C3's as although rough, i can't see a potential danger.

 

[Top Cat]

i might be inclined to downgrade your C2's to C3's as although rough, i can't see a potential danger.

Been struggling with this for a while Tel, have changed those two C2's to C3's backwards and forwards. My reasoning for C2 is with no labeling someone could remove main fuse (God forbid) and the D/B is still live so potentially dangerous. Also cables in loft could be tripped over or cut so potentially dangerous.

 

[Earthstore]

Do you need to mention that the PV has no RCD, and being a TT system it is usually a requirement?
Just for advice, if there is no AC supply to the inverter then there would be no AC coming from PV system, an inverter can take 5 seconds to shut down though, hence why they should never be on a 'shared RCD', but the DC would still be live, well in the daytime of course...

 

[Gavin A]

Do you need to mention that the PV has no RCD,

looks to me like it's got an RCD in the garage unit.

looks about right TC, and now I've seen the photos I realise what you meant by connected at the suppliers fuse, not quite as bad as I'd pictured it (I'd been imagining 2 sets of tails somehow wedged in to the same hole).

bit of a dogs dinner, and the customer is definitely loosing out on the free leccy (which if it was rent a roof, then that is the only benefit they've be getting from the system, so just a bit important), but I think you've got the levels about right, though I agree that the C2s probably are borderline between 2&3.

 

[Top Cat]

Do you need to mention that the PV has no RCD, and being a TT system it is usually a requirement?
Just for advice, if there is no AC supply to the inverter then there would be no AC coming from PV system, an inverter can take 5 seconds to shut down though, hence why they should never be on a 'shared RCD', but the DC would still be live, well in the daytime of course...

PV has got RCD protection, main fuse to 63A RCD, 20A breaker see pictures. Unless you mean up in the roof space?

Edit 63A 30mA rcd

 

[Top Cat]

looks to me like it's got an RCD in the garage unit.

looks about right TC, and now I've seen the photos I realise what you meant by connected at the suppliers fuse, not quite as bad as I'd pictured it (I'd been imagining 2 sets of tails somehow wedged in to the same hole).

bit of a dogs dinner, and the customer is definitely loosing out on the free leccy (which if it was rent a roof, then that is the only benefit they've be getting from the system, so just a bit important), but I think you've got the levels about right, though I agree that the C2s probably are borderline between 2&3.

Maybe put down C 2.5:wink5:

 

[Gavin A]

tbh, I've not done any of the new reports, so you'll know better than me what to put down I reckon.

 

[GaryM]

here's one I did earlier!View attachment 12609 Not the best I've ever done but the only photie I've got to hand.
labels went on later before anyone comments!
Middle set of tails go to dedicated CU. Right hand tails (as we look at it) go to main CU

Moggy, make sure you don't strip the outer sheath of the tails outside of the henley block otherwise you have a single insulated conductor with no mechanical protection outside of an enclosure which would warrant a defect code on an EICR.

 

[GaryM]

HEY TC,

good pic! tails are undersized for 100amp suppliers fuse

The 20A MCB within the 2 way consumer unit would provide overload protection for the 16mm2 tails so not an issue though connecting before the suppliers meter is a serious no-no!
My 2 way solar CU is supplied with 10mm2 tails and that's not an issue either.

Absolute shocking job though. I'm just amazed somebody could actually carry out an installation like that and not give it a second thought

 

[Earthstore]

I think I have spotted another fault here chaps, they have brought the Earth in from the array, so bringing a potential into the equipmental zone, it should be on its own Earth spike, unless there are velux windows of course, which I doubt. Your thoughts?
I did not spot the RCD though, sorry.

 

[sambotc]

All looks like cheap tat as well, probably won't last more than a few years!

Think that's the roughest solar electrical install i've seen, I wonder what the roof work is like...

 

[dansk]

All looks like cheap tat as well, probably won't last more than a few years!

Think that's the roughest solar electrical install i've seen, I wonder what the roof work is like...

they keep popping up on this forum, i reckon there hundreds out their like this one and its only time before we all start picking up repair work for mis sized inverters, poor wiring, panels slipping. The trouble with that install also is were was the persons pride? who in the right mind leaves a job like that, yes ok im not proud of all my jobs, but even in my early days i wouldnt leave anything like that!

 

[fiardor]

Moggy, make sure you don't strip the outer sheath of the tails outside of the henley block otherwise you have a single insulated conductor with no mechanical protection outside of an enclosure which would warrant a defect code on an EICR.

Hey Gaz?

Does that include all tails in and out of the meter and main head too? As 95% of the instals i go to obviously dont now comply to the new EICR.
So?
Does that mean i have to make all necessary changes to the tails to make the instal/electrics comply?

Thanks

Fiardor

 

[GaryM]

It's always been the case that you can't have a single insulated conductor outside of an enclosure or containment but you're right, there's many installs out there with that issue and the DNO are more guilty than most, especially with their meter terminations. Maybe that's where the habit has come from?
If you're carrying out an EICR then just report and code them appropriately. No need to make any changes there and then, only if the customer chooses to have the defects rectified though the meter terminations are obviously the DNO's responsibility. You can still note them on your EICR though.

 

[fiardor]

It's always been the case that you can't have a single insulated conductor outside of an enclosure or containment but you're right, there's many installs out there with that issue and the DNO are more guilty than most, especially with their meter terminations. Maybe that's where the habit has come from?
If you're carrying out an EICR then just report and code them appropriately. No need to make any changes there and then, only if the customer chooses to have the defects rectified though the meter terminations are obviously the DNO's responsibility. You can still note them on your EICR though.

Duly noted thanks Gaz

And will from now on adhere to the new EICR. (mostly) LOL

 

[staedtler]

I think tails are undersized for 100 amp suppliers fuse

 

[GaryM]

I think tails are undersized for 100 amp suppliers fuse

If there's a 20A MCB in the 2 way CU then how can the tails be subjected to an overload greater than the rating of the MCB?
In other words, the MCB is your overload protection and the tails are fine.

Think of an 800A busbar chamber with a few 32A switch fuse isolators fed from it. Would you expect conductors rated at 800A to be terminated into the 32A switch fuse?

 

[Top Cat]

If there's a 20A MCB in the 2 way CU then how can the tails be subjected to an overload greater than the rating of the MCB?
In other words, the MCB is your overload protection and the tails are fine.

Think of an 800A busbar chamber with a few 32A switch fuse isolators fed from it. Would you expect conductors rated at 800A to be terminated into the 32A switch fuse?

If the RCD short circuited then the prospective fault current could be thousands of Amps.
Agree to a point about a busbar chamber but the small tails would or should be mechanically protected.

 

[GaryM]

They are mechanically protected - by their outer sheath. No other protection needed, subject to environment.
Many thousands of amps would be great for fast breaking of a protective device that's suitably rated to break the fault current without destroying itself.

 

[xiaoneitie]

yes, it will only have electricity he is using pass through it. the excess will go off to the grid so I'm not right in saying he will be charged for everything he generates. As you say, just no reduction in his bill!

 

[Dan]

Don't mind me while I bump some threads in the solar PV forum. If they're not current or applicable topics, just ignore the threads; they'll drop off the page. If they are, feel free to chip in and chat solar stuff in the solar panels forum.