Future for installers

[Dillons]

The fit (carrot) is becoming a tax (stick)..........seems this is just a step closer to them introducing a carbon tax if you ask me.

 

[JulianC]

Greg Barker is C-rated. It stands for c**t

 

[TrickyDicky101]

We live in a modern (90s) house and have cavity wall, double glazing and insulation coming out of our ears and we only rate a D. For us to rate C I suspect we would need a condensing boiler installed which would

a) cost a lot
b) break down c.10 year mark and need replacing

That means for us to get to a C rating is completely uneconomic. And that's on a modern house - any older and the costs to achieve C far, far outweigh any potential benefits from a 21p FIT and energy savings.

 

[northernsun]

Mybe I'm just feeling a bit pessimistic at the moment but I certainly cant see me renewing our MCS. I didnt get any finance and started the company new, not an add on to an existing electrical contractors. I set up on the cheap after working in PV for years and setting up one of the bigger installation companies that were previously roofers (and got shafted in the process)
Its been a slow burn since then, grafting away to get to the point where i finally thought I would have a life again and be earning money rather than just paying to get over the next hurdle.
The thought of doing it again next year... Nah, I might become more optimistic in a while but right now I'm regretting the whole thing and I think if I'd just have gone on a year long bender I'd be in a better position than I am now. Would have had more fun anyway.

Right now its like someone popped their head round the corner and said "SURPRISE! You have a month to sort your crap out and then you're done"

 

[Worcester]

When I was a child, I was always told not to put all my eggs in one basket.

So what do most people do with their income?

We run a renewable energy business, not a solar PV installation company, that is just one of the things we do.

Time to really think about who you are, and what you do.

Our company has a great future ahead of it, and we have all known since August that a massive cut was coming. If you follow my comments on various threads, you'll see that I've been saying it since June, and we've been planning for it since June, it seems that a lot of people have been in denial.

Yes it's harsh, and the get rich quick and badly managed installers will go bump, those that have managed their businesses well will continue to thrive even without PV.

We shall be renewing REAL and MCS.

 

[SRE]

I'm pleased for you Gordon but not everyone is in the same boat and not always through being short sighted. We're lucky, we had a goal of becoming mortgage free, then having a stash for survival funds and we were just about to sort out pensions. We won't go under because of solar but it will be a while before we'll have time to re-think direction.

At the moment every waking hour is concerned with making hay while the sun shines and if I haven't collapsed with exhaustion our new beginnings will be planned in the New Year. I feel for those who just haven't managed to get over that financial hurdle of set up and vat and who are small, like us - good luck, I think you may need it. It could have been us 6 months ago and I'm grateful it isn't.

 

[solarfred]

Now you all listen here... we have just not got it right we are all low life money grabbers on a gravy train..

Quote..

• 
  
  
  PloughcroftSolar 31 October 2011 6:20PM
  
  “Companies that have entered the solar industry purely to join in the solar gold rush which use unethical sales practice and are unethical and unsustainable. The current FIT makes it too good to be true for them, and the proposed lower FIT rate will mean they cease to exist. Long-term, this is good for the industry as we need companies who are committed to the renewable cause.”
  Chris Hopkins, Ploughcroft Solar MD
  
  I am quite insulted.
  
  

 

[SRE]

I'm not particularly suprised though - he hardly put up a good argument on Dragon's Den did he and even with their support he's hardly articulate is he, so how could he understand the sentiments of decent installers!!

 

[solarfred]

A good Dragon would have seen this coming so he will be fine. Particulary when his customers ask about the 70% reduction in prices.

 

[moggy1968]

wasn't he one of the proponents of free installations, of the type that caused part of the overbudget problem?

 

[GreggElectrical]

I live in a rural area where most houses will be well over 50 years old. No chance of getting Grade C around here.

How stupid and short-sighted to limit only newer houses to having a cat in hells chance of getting PV when its the older houses that would benefit them most. Try reducing the carbon footprint as much by spending the same money on a typical 150 year old dales farmhouse! It would cost you 10k just insulate the 3ft thick walls and you would lose 4" of the internal measurements of every room!

 

[SRE]

We're in the same boat - I guess if you had an optimistic head on you might argue this in the consultation .... but tbh I can't see how I can do a quality job at 9k to make it attractive to customers.

What seems really ironic is that the decent brands of panels will be too expensive, European brands will be too expensive so we'll all be buying in Chinese panels helping them on their way to Superpowerdom!!

 

[duncs535]

i think that the potential customers are going to be stagnant for a little while as the new pricing structure sinks in. I think its rather like a house that you get told is worth 300k then when you come to sell it it goes on the market for 275k ! you think you have lost 25k when in reality you never had it in the first place.

The PV will be much the same, as people will still get a return on their investment albeit extended by a further 6-7 years, but how many home improvements actually pay for themselves over time?

The price of electricity will only increase, yes you wont be able to sell as readily as we have before, but ultimately people will come rounf to buying again.

Those companies without any other revenue streams are going to suffer the most, but ultimately there is still a good PV market albeit we are going to have to work that bit harder to sell it, and we wont be able to kick each other in the nuts and keep dropping the prices!

 

[Surboy]

I am amazed at how many people are still failing to understand the full impact of the upcoming reduction and new rules for access to FITs. There is no getting around that a 21p rate has effectively turned solar from a very attractive investment to a hard sale. Yes some people argue a PV system will still provide you with a 5% ROI but for a non-mobile investment...and that is providing your home meets the required energy efficiency parameters...

In other countries people would throw themselves to the streeets to fiercely campaign against DECC's decision, in the UK we just allow the Government to sh*ft us and accept fate. Very sad days ahead for many PV businesses and redundancies looming for many families. I just wish politicians stopped playing with our lives and behaved in a more rsponsible manner :13:

 

[SolarCity]

The problem with the idea of a 4%-5% investment is that they are comparing it to current interest rates.

Of course, most people would hope that interest rates would recover over the next few years whereas the money that has been invested in solar PV will be locked into it forever.

 

[Surboy]

It is all about risk and return and the new FITs translate into a much less attractive investment vehicle for end users. As installers our audience will now be reduced significantly so there won't be enough room for 4000 companies. Some will survive but the good old times are now well over...perhaps the Government will realise in a few months about their mistake when the queues continue to grow at the Job Centres...

 

[Greenday]

We shot ourselves in the foot a while ago. Every new entrant feels the need to offer reduced prices! The arrival of a 4kWp system for sub £10k really was the killer!

The government must have took one look at that and said right thats a 30% drop in twelve months people really are making too great a return on investment lets cut the FIT rate.

Lets resist the temptation to try to offer our customers plus 10% return on their investment this time or the FIT rate will be cut again! The consumer really has had a fantastic deal whilst our margins have dropped and now were left with all the costs associated with running our business.

We will survive as we are a renewables company but you do wonder where the government will strike next. No RHI perhaps?

I guess the majority of companies are not cowboys(I hate that term) and strive to deliver the best quality installation they can. However against the background of internet chatter where potential customers try to talk us into delivering a £10K 4kWp as standard and we as idiots trying to impress give it them doesnt really make a good sustainable business model. There are better margins to be earned in other areas of the building trade which shouldnt be the case when we are delivering an emerging technology in the UK. None of those customers that you did an install for at sub 20% gpm are going to mourn the cutting of the FIT but you sadly will!

 

[duncs535]

I agree the sub £10k was totally unnecesary it really has devalued the market place. Some companies have relyed on cutting prices to the bone where it just wasnt necesary.

A proper job demands a proper price - if you go below that price then something has to give either workmanship or materials.

Due to the amount of legislation and red tape - there is no room to cut the prices and work for mere wages.

Hopefully now the whole industry will realign and get back to a proper amount of work.

 

[jimmymckinney]

not far off entering the "SMUG ZONE" there mate!

 

[northernsun]

When I was a child, I was always told not to put all my eggs in one basket.

So what do most people do with their income?

We run a renewable energy business, not a solar PV installation company, that is just one of the things we do.

Time to really think about who you are, and what you do.

Our company has a great future ahead of it, and we have all known since August that a massive cut was coming. If you follow my comments on various threads, you'll see that I've been saying it since June, and we've been planning for it since June, it seems that a lot of people have been in denial.

Yes it's harsh, and the get rich quick and badly managed installers will go bump, those that have managed their businesses well will continue to thrive even without PV.

We shall be renewing REAL and MCS.

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately what you describe does not come over night. Especially without financial backing.
I wouldnt put us in either the get rich quick or or the badly run businesses though- I'd put us in the most vulnerable catergory- the business that was just finding its feet. I dont think ts a case of denial for a lot of folks, just lack of abiltiy to take things to that next level- stability. 6 months to a year further along and things might have been different but right now I think a lot of good companies have just been strangled at birth.

The ploughcroft comment has made me feel rather bitter about the whole thing and I'm tempted to just say "sod it, I dont want to be a part of this anymore" But reading your post last night has made me begin thinking long and hard about what it is I am and where I go from here.