Getting a shock in a shower.

[mktdeeping]

Hi all. Sort of an interesting one. I had a call from a client to say she is getting a shock when using the shower. I told her not to use it and I’d go next day to have a look. I thought easy job, just replace the shower. I was wrong….it wasn’t an electric shower!
I checked from an earth to the shower drain gulley, the tile grout, the wall behind the shower and the door bar on the floor where the carpet joined the floor tiles. All were giving between 18v and 27v. Water had obviously been leaking behind the shower seal and through grout etc. must be a joint under the floor somewhere that’s getting damp. The upstairs lighting circuit seemed to be the culprit with an earth to live fault and when isolated at the consumer unit the voltage disappeared. Time to get floor up or ceiling down. The client said don’t do any more investigation even though it’s still live and he wanted to leave things until everything dries out….could be weeks or months. I wasn’t happy with that so I put RCBO on the lighting circuit (which didn’t trip) and gave him a letter explaining the danger and covering myself and will wait to hear from him when he wants me to go back.
Anyone else had this sort of issue?

 

[buzzlightyear]

The client said don’t do any more investigation even though it’s still live and he wanted to leave things until everything dries out….could be weeks or months. I wasn’t happy with that so I put RCBO on the lighting circuit (which didn’t trip) and gave him a letter explaining the danger and covering myself and will wait to hear from him when he wants me to go back.

Answer for that isolate the lighting till a proper investigation is needed until
It can be sorted out.it is better for them
Then dead fish in a shower.

 

[OLDBOY]

You cant just isolate circuits if a homeowner refuses that option, we do not have that authority.

 

[buzzlightyear]

You cant just isolate circuits if a homeowner refuses that option, we do not have that authority.

yes you can , if you think its dangerous ,ok i will put back on ,dead fish ,you and try to explain to H&S .op should have know know that from the start .

 

[jedisparks]

Yes, I have dealt with a similar issue before. Client experiencing shocks whilst using their shower. I measured 210 volts between the shower door frame and the MET. Turns out the shower door was fixed through the tiles and into the metal studwork frame of the partition wall. I traced what I reckoned was a DIY additional socket for a high level TV - cable fed from a double socket below. I pulled out the cable of this spur off and discovered a puncture mark in the cable. I suspect this was caught on one of those black dry lining screws (they have a sharp point). House was plumbed in speedfit - I've often wondered since if someone would have been seriously hurt had the shower had been plumbed in copper bonding to the MET.
Interesting fault find, for sure.

 

[OLDBOY]

Answer for that isolate the lighting till a proper investigation is needed until
It can be sorted out.it is better for them
Then dead fish in a shower.

yes you can , if you think its dangerous ,ok i will put back on ,dead fish ,you and try to explain to H&S .op should have know know that from the start .

We do not own a private clients electrical installation and therefore have no right to isolate a dangerous installation without their permission. The OP did not simply 'put it back on', the client was made aware, refused remedial work, so the OP took the correct action of informing the client of the danger in writing.
Try telling H&S that it wasnt your fault the old lady fell down the stairs because you decided you were the Electrical Police and isolated her lights without her permission.

 

[buzzlightyear]

It's better to be safe and sorry

We do not own a private clients electrical installation and therefore have no right to isolate a dangerous installation without their permission. The OP did not simply 'put it back on', the client was made aware, refused remedial work, so the OP took the correct action of informing the client of the danger in writing.
Try telling H&S that it wasnt your fault the old lady fell down the stairs because you decided you were the Electrical Police and isolated her lights without her permission.

Common sense provales.

 

[SparkingMad1997]

I had a similar fault once, I believe it was some damp getting through the wall where the shower valve was and onto to an old VIR cable clipped up the wall inside the airing cupboard. Cable was energised but no longer needed. I disconnected the cable from the DB and replaced the old undersized gas and water bonding using the correct BS951 clamps. (always worth testing the effectiveness/continuity of the bonding conductors in these cases) Also recommended an EICR and DB upgrade afterwards to incorporate earth leakage protection. One of David Saverys videos on YouTube also has a very similar fault which he investigated. I also agree with OLDBOY's response, we don't own the installation; we are given permission to work there. So cover your backside with a follow up email and I personally would leave it switched it off at the CU and point that breaker out to the client and recommend that they shouldn't switch it on rather than locking off or disconnecting etc.

 

[newfutile]

While it’s true we don’t own the installation electricity at work regulations and h&saw say we are guilty of an offence for any dangerous situations left ,and we have to use the get out clause regulation 29 I think

28 If no danger arises from a particular system, item of electrical equipment or
conductor and will not arise, then the Regulations, although applying to it, do not
require any precautions to be taken. However, in order for there to be no danger,
there would have to be no risk of electric shock, electric burn, fire, arcing or explosion.

 

[7029 dave]

As electricians we dont have the authority to disconnect circuits without client's permission, BUT we can turn off mcbs, switch gear etc.
The OP has covered himself. I would of turned the breaker off (photo taken) before I left they have been told plus in writing its their call to switch back on.

 

[James]

As electricians we dont have the authority to disconnect circuits without client's permission, BUT we can turn off mcbs, switch gear etc.
The OP has covered himself. I would of turned the breaker off (photo taken) before I left they have been told plus in writing its their call to switch back on.

I agree with all of the above, however sometimes after testing it is possible to forget that you need to reconnect a cable, I have done this in the past and maybe the customer thinks I am a bad electrician and the installation "works less" now than it did before i started testing it, however they are still alive to moan about it.

professionalism -1
morality +5

OOPS!!

 

[7029 dave]

I agree with all of the above, however sometimes after testing it is possible to forget that you need to reconnect a cable, I have done this in the past and maybe the customer thinks I am a bad electrician and the installation "works less" now than it did before i started testing it, however they are still alive to moan about it.

professionalism -1
morality +5

OOPS!!

No they would just want you to go back and reconnect

 

[James]

suck teeth and remind them how busy things are right now and i am on holiday next week so how about a date hmmm, 6 weeks away?

 

[DPG]

As electricians we dont have the authority to disconnect circuits without client's permission, BUT we can turn off mcbs, switch gear etc.
The OP has covered himself. I would of turned the breaker off (photo taken) before I left they have been told plus in writing its their call to switch back on.

I've given you a 'like' for this post even though you said 'would  of'.

 

[7029 dave]

I've given you a 'like' for this post even though you said 'would  of'.

You would of you mean lol

 

[CG_Sparks]

I went to look at a job like this a few years ago. My customer had a rental house, where there was an upstairs bedroom that had a newly built stud wall to make an ensuite, which he had built himself, to save money. Anyway, one day he phoned and said one of his tenants kept getting frequent shocks when touching the mixer tap in the shower cubicle at night and the RCD kept tripping. So I went round and checked voltages between the mixer tap and the metal frame of the shower cubicle and got between 100 - 187v! But only when the living room lights were on below the ensuite! Turned out that the landlord had managed to use really long screws for the metal frame, which had somehow engaged a downstairs 2-way switch cable under the floorboards, without engaging the CPC of the cable! So whenever those lights were on the tenant got a shock!