Hospital Emergency Power System

[Cookie]

Anyone have a one line diagram of a typical UK or EU hospital?

How are the emergency branches divided per code? How many ATSs? What is typical?

 

[Bobster]

Is this a homework question?

 

[Cookie]

Nope, genuinely would like to know. Say I'm designing a hospital from scratch to modern code.

 

[Pete999]

Nope, genuinely would like to know. Say I'm designing a hospital from scratch to modern code.

No break, or just Stand by?

 

[Cookie]

Ok, I'm learning all ready. What is the difference? The building never looses power vs just enough for what code requires be backed up?

 

[Bobster]

I presume since you haven't put a location and are referring to code and flashlights you're in the US?

Seems an odd request for just inquest

 

[Pete999]

Ok, I'm learning all ready. What is the difference? The building never looses power vs just enough for what code requires be backed up?

No Break, exactly what it says no break in the supply
Stand By, Loss of power, everything dead until Genny takes over.

 

[Cookie]

Knowledge is what frees, saves lives and progresses humanity. I genuinely want to know.

 

[Cookie]

No Break, exactly what it says no break in the supply
Stand By, Loss of power, everything dead until Genny takes over.

Like an uninterruptible power supply with a battery? What loads get that or are required to?

 

[Bobster]

The reason I ask, is this is a forum of mostly UK electricians. So will not be able vise on US code.

 

[Cookie]

The reason I ask, is this is a forum of mostly UK electricians. So will not be able vise on US code.

But thats the thing, I am specifically interested in UK practices and to a lesser degree EU practices. I can tell you everything you would ever want to know about other places however.

 

[Pete999]

Like an uninterruptible power supply with a battery? What loads get that or are required to?

Normal supply run through an on line UPS, power cut, UPS takes over until Genny is up and running and takes over from normal supply, load shedding is in operation to shut off all non essential loads.

 

[Cookie]

Normal supply run through an on line UPS, power cut, UPS takes over until Genny is up and running and takes over from normal supply, load shedding is in operation to shut off all non essential loads.

What loads would the UPS supply?

Also are the receptacles serving patient care beds fed by a dedicated electrical branch or ATS?

 

[The Ghost]

Ok I'll bite, why do you want to know everything about hospital power supplies in the UK? I would genuinely like to know! After all;

Knowledge is what frees, saves lives and progresses humanity

 

[Cookie]

Ok I'll bite, why do you want to know everything about hospital power supplies in the UK? I would genuinely like to know! After all;

I don't know anything about them. What is typical, what the regs mandate, ect, ect.

 

[Pete999]

What loads would the UPS supply?

Also are the receptacles serving patient care beds fed by a dedicated electrical branch or ATS?

I would say it's up to the Hospital Authorities to deem what constitutes essential and non essential loads, and of course the way the distribution side of things have been designed in the event of a power cut.

 

[Cookie]

I would say it's up to the Hospital Authorities to deem what constitutes essential and non essential loads, and of course the way the distribution side of things have been designed in the event of a power cut.

Do any specific regs govern the design of the system or what loads are deemed needing backup?

 

[The Ghost]

Your profile says you have changed flashlight batteries and lamps indicating you are not an electrician. At the same time

I can tell you everything you would ever want to know about other places however.

Which suggests you know more than your profile is showing. I only ask as it is helpful to know your knowledge level to pitch the answer accordingly. As you have asked about a highly technical subject matter.

 

[Pete999]

Do any specific regs govern the design of the system or what loads are deemed needing backup?

No idea, was just responding to your question regarding what is "No Break" and "Stand By" by my understanding and experience.

 

[Bobster]

BS7671 is the general regulations that cover UK installs, but there will be more specific British standards to follow.

 

[Pete999]

BS7671 is the general regulations that cover UK installs, but there will be more specific British standards to follow.

Agree

 

[Cookie]

Your profile says you have changed flashlight batteries and lamps indicating you are not an electrician. At the same time

Which suggests you know more than your profile is showing. I only ask as it is helpful to know your knowledge level to pitch the answer accordingly. As you have asked about a highly technical subject matter.

I've learned about them, but now want to learn about the UK.

Pitch without a filter, speak your mind. Its the easiest for all of us.

And if you ask me its not all that highly technical. Get into epigenetics or quantum mechanics and that it really becomes esoteric.

 

[Cookie]

BS7671 is the general regulations that cover UK installs, but there will be more specific British standards to follow.

Yup- and thats another reason I'm asking. Maybe I'm oblivious, but I haven't seen anything in BS7671 that governs hospital emergency systems. Where as the NEC on the other hand have an in depth article.

 

[Pete999]

I've learned about them, but now want to learn about the UK.

Pitch without a filter, speak your mind. Its the easiest for all of us.

And if you ask me its not all that highly technical. Get into epigenetics or quantum mechanics and that it really becomes esoteric.

All these long words are doing my head in ,please speak down to earth English

 

[The Ghost]

Have a look at these then.

 

[Cookie]

All these long words are doing my head in ,please speak down to earth English

As I said, I'm not afraid of what ever you throw at me

 

[Pete999]

As I said, I'm not afraid of what ever you throw at me

Any help

NHS England » Health technical memoranda

www.gov.uk

 

[Cookie]

Have a look at these then.

Now thats what I'm looking for!

 

[The Ghost]

There is some mention of hospitals in BS7671 in timing of generators switchover and earthing systems peculiar to hospitals.
And of course there is still the matter of why you want to know and your technical level not apparent on your profile.
"Pitch without a filter, speak your mind. Its the easiest for all of us."
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander! Tell us about yourself a little.

 

[Cookie]

Returning the favor, here is one NEC examples;

Page 8 and 9

I can explain the design further.

I have another, but can't post links because it says its spam. Really hate AI, its ruining so much.

 

[Cookie]

There is some mention of hospitals in BS7671 in timing of generators switchover and earthing systems peculiar to hospitals.

Section #?

 

[marconi]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/608037/Health_tech_memo_0601.pdf

Here is the 2017 edition of the NHS's electrical supply and distribution requirements. I suggest you read through it and find out if there is a latest edition. I have only skim read it but there are some references at the end.

 

[Cookie]

Thanks everyone.

I know I should continue reading and not skim- but what do they mean by "risk grade"?

 

[marconi]

See Executive Summary page vii first bullet starting mid left of page.

Also see:

https://www.neas.nhs.uk/media/118673/foi.16.170_-_risk_matrix_for_risk_managers_v91.pdf

and contact National Patient Safety Agency (NPSA) for the latest edition - the one I linked to is 2008:

www.npsa.nhs.uk

 

[Cookie]

Ok, thank you

And can the mods make it so I can post links?

 

[Cookie]

And one question- I can legally supply backup power for the whole site via one ATS?

 

[snowhead]

but what do they mean by "risk grade"?

The level of Risk of an electrical supply failure causing harm to Patients and or the Business.

Example,
Loss of power to Car park lighing .

Risk Grade 4. Consequences, low risk of trips and slips.

Loss of power to Operating theatre.

Risk Grade 1. Consequences, high risk of loss of Patient life.

 

[snowhead]

And one question- I can legally supply backup power for the whole site via one ATS?

It's not law that would cover it, it would be Health Service Policy.

Hospitals would always have mulitple backups.
I doubt Health Service Policy would allow a single local source as backup.

The National Health Service Hospital close to where I live has multiple supplies from the local Grid.
Run a 4.9mw gas turbine driven Combined Heat and power generator 24/7 and export when over producing.

Probably have other localised backups as well.

https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-business/large-energy-users/manage-energy/energy-efficiency/~/media/PDFs/For-your-business/Large-Energy-Users/Efficiency/final%20qmc.pdf

 

[DPG]

What an intriguing thread!

 

[Cookie]

So what would mandate multiple ATSs?

Anyone have a single line of an actual UK hospital?

 

[Cookie]

The level of Risk of an electrical supply failure causing harm to Patients and or the Business.

Example,
Loss of power to Car park lighing .

Risk Grade 4. Consequences, low risk of trips and slips.

Loss of power to Operating theatre.

Risk Grade 1. Consequences, high risk of loss of Patient life.

Thank you, makes sense.

 

[Bobster]

So what would mandate multiple ATSs?

Anyone have a single line of an actual UK hospital?

I doubt actual line diagrams of an in service hospital would be available online. However there may be theoretical ones.

It's a bit of a niche subject.

Can you define what you mean by ATS. I presume alternate supply?

 

[Cookie]

I doubt actual line diagrams of an in service hospital would be available online. However there may be theoretical ones.

It's a bit of a niche subject.

Can you define what you mean by ATS. I presume alternate supply?

Nothing government funded? What, the NHS is gov right? Then they should have single lines out there.

ATS= Automatic Transfer Switch

 

[Bobster]

Nothing government funded? What, the NHS is gov right? Then they should have single lines out there.

ATS= Automatic Transfer Switch

They will have single lines out there, but for obvious reasons, detailing supplies for hospitals are not likely to be available to the public.

In the same way military bases, water treatment plants aren't.

 

[DPG]

I'm still thinking this may be a wind up.

 

[Cookie]

They will have single lines out there, but for obvious reasons, detailing supplies for hospitals are not likely to be available to the public.

In the same way military bases, water treatment plants aren't.

In the US disclosure is mandatory if public money is being used in a bid, renovation or to run the facility.

I'd post a link as an example but the forum won't let me saying its spam.

(*edit- never mind, it went through this time)

 

[Cookie]

They will have single lines out there, but for obvious reasons, detailing supplies for hospitals are not likely to be available to the public.

In the same way military bases, water treatment plants aren't.

As an example, page 34 onward

https://www.dshs.wa.gov/sites/default/files/FSA/capital/17103.09%20WSH%20Generator%20and%20ATS%20Report%20-%20Final.pdf

 

[DPG]

Why the particular interest in the electrical systems of various countrys' hospitals? Seems a bit specific.

 

[Cookie]

I'm still thinking this may be a wind up.

For those wondering about why I'm spinning my wheels on ATSs and dedicated electrical branches-

The NEC requires that hospitals have their critical loads divided among 3 separate branches.

Life Safety, Critical, and Equipment.

Life safety branch is only for lighting (hallway, egress, stair well, exit sign), door openers, fire alarms and emergency communications systems which aid in the evacuation of a hsopital during a fire.

Critical branch is for patient care receptacles (ie ventilators, cardiac EKG, dialysis), operating rooms, task lighting, hall lighting... anything which is deemed essential for keeping people medically alive and executing tasks related to it.

Equipment branch is for OR HVAC, motors, ventilation, medical gas and vacuum pumps, ect. Any large equipment needed in the bare minimum of patient care.

If the essential power system is 150kva and under code mandates 1 ATS, but if the load is over 150kva you need at least 3 ATSs.

 

[Cookie]

Why the particular interest in the electrical systems of various countrys' hospitals? Seems a bit specific.

In simple terms each has their own rules, often contradictory to one another lol, and with that evidence as to what is best practice and not best practice come reality.


That and the differences themselves are rather enlightening in electrical theory and the code making process for better and for worse.