I thought they were history

[trev]

Out in Newcastle with the Grandson today (if you're up here the discovery museum is well worth a visit) we walked past Grey's Monument and the National Front were out with banners proclaiming Britain for the British, Brits against grooming, bring back capital punishment. Only half a dozen of them and I think by the sound of them their collective IQ didn't scrape into double figures.
I honestly thought they had disappeared without trace a couple of years ago.

 

[rapparee]

Unfortunately the likes of alan henning's brutal murder will give these cretins a certain fuel to go out and spout their hate

 

[Silly Sausage]

their collective IQ didn't scrape into double figures.

I met one once, he had a Doc Marten tattooed on his face and a dotted line around his neck, along with the the immortal words 'Cut Here'!
I was thinking single figure IQ as well :smilielol5:

 

[Kamikaze]

The word on the streets in Shropshire is, you lot up north are thinking about bringing back the Halifax Gibbet.
That will liven up things a bit...lol

 

[trev]

No, not me. I'm firmly against capital punishment.

 

[dingledong]

Even if it's 100% proven thAt the person did it ? As N example the killers of Lee rigby

 

[Geordie Spark]

Even if it's 100% proven thAt the person did it ? As N example the killers of Lee rigby

No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.

 

[HandySparks]

No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.

Indeed. But it's galling that it costs so much to keep them there. (About £40k per year.)

 

[davesparks]

No.

The very worst thing you can do to a human being is deprive them of their freedom. - for ever!!

The same four walls, the same bed, table & chair and the same mind-numbing routine day after day for the rest of their life.

That has to be worse than the sudden stop at the end of the rope.

If it was that kind of hardship in prison!

If the media is to be believed then prison life is not too bad for them.

 

[Geordie Spark]

If it was that kind of hardship in prison!

If the media is to be believed then prison life is not too bad for them.

Not too bad???

Not being able to go to the pub, the beach, the country, take a holiday, visit friends & family, not being able to change the decor of your room when you want and to something you like. To wear the same style clothing every day. To be woken at the same time every morning and to eat at the same times every day from a very limited menu for the rest of your life!!

I can think of nothing worse!!

Do NOT believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV- in fact, don't believe anything unless you've seen it with your own eyes!!

 

[Besoeker]

No, nor me. I'm firmly against capital punishment.

So am I.
Possibly an age/maturity thing.

When I was younger, very much younger, school age, it seemed like an expedient. Job done and dusted.
Dispatch, a one shot deal, rather than paying for a life term for a scroat in jail. Blunt and crude. But that's youth for you.

But age and a dose of reality changed my thinking.
Killing is just plain wrong. Killing a killer is just about as illogical as you can get. Based on stats, it isn't even a deterrent.

Then you have the possibility of error. The Guildford Four and Birmingham Six come to mind.

 

[Adam W]

Not too bad???

Not being able to go to the pub, the beach, the country, take a holiday, visit friends & family, not being able to change the decor of your room when you want and to something you like. To wear the same style clothing every day. To be woken at the same time every morning and to eat at the same times every day from a very limited menu for the rest of your life!!

I can think of nothing worse!!

Do NOT believe everything that you read in the papers or see on TV- in fact, don't believe anything unless you've seen it with your own eyes!!

You seem to be describing my life as a child. If instead of fruitlessly attempting to earn rewards by being a good boy, and gone around taking things and got caught at some point and sent to 'prison' I would have been given decent meals and got the new clothes, games console and bicycle I wanted so badly. I might even have had an apprenticeship handed to me instead of having to do it all myself. In the best scenario I would have got the stuff I'd stolen.
Now where's the lesson in that?

 

[chrisg1979]

Think this wee clip of English Defence League bright spark (arf arf) says a lot.

http://youtu.be/kjuNuqIev8M

 

[trev]

You seem to be describing my life as a child. If instead of fruitlessly attempting to earn rewards by being a good boy, and gone around taking things and got caught at some point and sent to 'prison' I would have been given decent meals and got the new clothes, games console and bicycle I wanted so badly. I might even have had an apprenticeship handed to me instead of having to do it all myself. In the best scenario I would have got the stuff I'd stolen.
Now where's the lesson in that?

One of our neighbours is a prison officer, it isn't the holiday camp that the Daily Fail would have you believe Adam. I've had the regime described to me in some detail.

 

[shanky887614]

One of our neighbours is a prison officer, it isn't the holiday camp that the Daily Fail would have you believe Adam. I've had the regime described to me in some detail.

in curious? what about this regime

 

[dingledong]

How about bang to right paedophiles , death sentence for them ?

 

[BES]

This might sound a bit weired but I've studied capital punishment from around the world. The long drop hanging method and table of drops needed to break the spinal cord devised by william marwood in the late 19th century is the most humain method and is still used today in parts of the old commonwealth. I was untill recently completely against a return of capital punishment in the uk but some events and crimes in recent times have changed my mind and believe it needs readdressing but don't think it a thing that can be rushed back into lightly. Honestly though if they had public vote id be a for a return. Something needs to change in this country and soon.

 

[trev]

I couldn't bring myself to support the return of the death penalty. If one mistake/miscarriage of justice happens it's too many and over the years there have been many, Timothy Evans, The Guildford 4, the Birmingham 6 are famous examples of miscarriages that either did or would have resulted in innocent people being hanged.
The argument that it has some sort of deterrent value is false imo, many of the countries where it is practiced have a far higher rate of violent crime and murder than we do here so how is it possibly acting in the manner that some people claim?
Most murders are committed in the heat of the moment where people are not thinking of the consequences of their actions or happen when the perpetrator thinks he or she will get away with it.
Those who seek martyrdom should not be given it by the justice system.
Why would the government kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong

 

[BES]

I couldn't bring myself to support the return of the death penalty. If one mistake/miscarriage of justice happens it's too many and over the years there have been many, Timothy Evans, The Guildford 4, the Birmingham 6 are famous examples of miscarriages that either did or would have resulted in innocent people being hanged.
The argument that it has some sort of deterrent value is false imo, many of the countries where it is practiced have a far higher rate of violent crime and murder than we do here so how is it possibly acting in the manner that some people claim?
Most murders are committed in the heat of the moment where people are not thinking of the consequences of their actions or happen when the perpetrator thinks he or she will get away with it.
Those who seek martyrdom should not be given it by the justice system.
Why would the government kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong

I quite agree with you trev and your arguements against are the same I used to and in some respect still believe but now we have the technolgy to prove beyond doubt the guilt of the people who commit these crimes. The examples you quote such Evans are very few and I hope that the evans/ christie case would have a different out come today has would the guilford 4 & birmingham 6. Take the hanratty case his family fot years beleived he was innocent and was wrongly hanged but when his remains werw exhumed and tested for his dna it proved his guilt. Im affraid getting the wrong person today is so slim the using that arguement against the return has long since gone.

 

[trev]

Take a look at the innocence project Bes. There's people on death row in the US who's guilt is under considerable doubt, there's no reason to suspect that the same would not happen here.
I agree with what you said about some things desperately needing to change in this country but a return to capital punishment would be a backward step, it has no place in a modern, civilised country. Not for me anyway.

 

[BES]

Since the return of capial punishment in the 70s USA the time between sentance and excution has become ridiculous in some cases 30 yrs I certainly don't want that to happen in the uk. The american justice system is completly differnt to ours and you have to remember each state has its own laws on the death penalty. I agree there has been a vast number of innocent people in the states executed and the vast majority of executions now take place in the bible belt that in it self must tell you something very difficult to compare the states justice system and death penalty laws to the uk.

 

[trev]

The death penalty in the US is something of a lottery, you're far more likely to be sentenced to death if you're poor, black and poorly educated whereas over here if you were found guilty you were sentenced to hang, no ifs or buts. Whether the sentence was carried out is another matter so I appreciate your point.
I wouldn't like to join a club which boasts members such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea and China. All countries not well renowned for their human rights records

 

[Barry White]

Have to agree the National Front are not my kind of political party (Adolf would have liked them) But noticed the thread going off on a tangent about capital punishment and I believe there is a place for it
mass murderers like Peter Sudcliffe Child killers like Ian Huntly,Mark Bridger, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady.

As mentioned earlier money is a factor too the likes of Ian Huntley playing on His Xbox with the latest games (Fact a friend works at Wakefield prison believe Huntley is now in Durham) and then Prisoner compensation claims for jail attacks (why should they get compensation)

Bring back the rope for the above and similar offences

 

[BES]

I agree trev those countries have an appauling record on human rights. But there has been in recent years to many cases in this country that could have been proven beyond doubt and the people who commited these crimes need to be dealt with more severly that they are. The world is changing and so should the way we deal with certain types if people who commit certain types of crimes. Im not saying eye for an eye in anyway but there is a certain type of person who commits a crime that's so appauling that even life in prison without the chance of release is not enough.

 

[trev]

So to demonstrate that killing people is wrong the state kills people? That doesn't make sense to me. Another point worth mentioning is that in my opinion to be an advocate of the death penalty you have to be prepared to pull that lever. Could you do that and live with yourself? It;s very easy to say yes but have a think about it. It's not a him or you situation where you're fighting for your life, it's a cold blooded, methodical process.

 

[Barry White]

I am not Talking about murder any of us can commit murder without meaning to but theres the serial murderers Doctor Shipman and countless others proved without doubt to be guilty who want the rope
Yes I could and would pull the lever on any of the B*$t***$ mentioned who are still with us and sleep soundly

Do not want mandatory death sentences for murder

Up to 1998 you could still be hanged for treason! but now we are in Europe human rights prevent this so it wont be coming back anytime soon

 

[trev]

Could you live with yourself if one of them was later proven to be innocent? All I'm meaning by that is no system is 100% infallible, mistakes have been made in the past and could be made in the future.

Until the final abolition you could have been hanged for getting in the queen's way. Obstructing the passage of the monarch was the name of the crime but to the best of my knowledge no one had even been charged with it so I' not sure what your point is with "Up to 1998 you could still be hanged for treason". We've been in what is now the EU since the early 1970s. The human rights laws which have been denigrated in the tory press this week were actually fought for by none other than Winston Spencer Churchill and you'll not find many in history that were more tory than him.

 

[dingledong]

In London gang shootings are not a heat of the moment thing ,are they ? I agree with innocent people being found guilty but if it's proven beyond doubt is Lee rigby's death and some of these gang shootings ,Ian Huntley then I think yes

 

[CockneyReject]

Well Newcastle can be like the land that time forgot so if the NF are going to be found anywhere Newcastle won't be far off the top of that list

As for prison/capital punishment etc prisons nowhere near as harsh and unforgiving as it should be, compensation for attacks while in prison is a joke, being able to have access to education that would cost thousands for a normal tax payer, games consoles and the like too really shouldn't have their place in our prisons they should be brutal evil places where scum are left to rot, all these Paedo rings, child killers and rapists that get ****y little sentences and an easy ride while inside should be jailed til they are carried out in boxes and everyday day they are in there should have them beaten, tortured and abused right up until their last, that would be more of a fitting punishment than a death sentence and a better deterrent

 

[Marvo]

Could you live with yourself if one of them was later proven to be innocent? All I'm meaning by that is no system is 100% infallible, mistakes have been made in the past and could be made in the future.......

That's a bit of an understatement. Here's the list of people who were on death row in the US and were later exonerated of the crimes they were found guilty of committing.