In defence of the short course trainee

[Knobhead]

Thread title “In defence of the 5 week wonder”

How the hell can any qualified tradesman defend the indefensible? It’s like sitting on a branch while sawing through it.

YOU in the domestic side have let the side down.
YOU let the schemes run the show.
YOU allowed the lowering of standards.

I’m ashamed of the trade I joined 40 years ago!

 

[guest119]

This is again where I get slightly confused so apologises
If they decide to go self employed, since I know nothing about this please excuse if this is a daft question, when they advertise and get a call from joe public, don't customers ask to see a card that would show u are qualified ??
and if so how do they get one after 5 weeks??
and if not is it that the customer wants the cheapest??
Or do people just trust at face value if it's said John Electrical Trainee is qualified then he must be and must know what he's doing?

That is why a lot of them end up on here asking the most basic of questions and take the huff when challenged.

Boydy

 

[GMES]

This is again where I get slightly confused so apologises
If they decide to go self employed, since I know nothing about this please excuse if this is a daft question, when they advertise and get a call from joe public, don't customers ask to see a card that would show u are qualified ??
and if so how do they get one after 5 weeks??
and if not is it that the customer wants the cheapest??
Or do people just trust at face value if it's said John Electrical Trainee is qualified then he must be and must know what he's doing?

I will give you an example Chris, I know a Electrical Trainee he paid £ 2500.00 for a 17 day course with elecsa and came out with a piece of paper saying that he was a qualified domestic installer, and then went self employed on the advice of elecsa. By is own admission he had not got a clue what he was doing on his own so he came with me for a week free of charge to try and pick up a few bits of advice, he was a lovely lad but he scared me to death as he had never worked with electricity prior to the 17 day course.
During the week he was with me he got a call from someone who saw is advertisement in the local rag and needed a small job doing, so off he went and within an hour he was on the phone asking for help. He explained to me down the phone that the job required him to move a light switch from one side of the door to the opposite side, but the way the previous spark had wired it it was to complicated for him ( those were his words ) I said I might struggle to try and explain down phone so without chance to stop him he turned round to HIS customer and said would they mind if I came round and showed him how to do the job. bearing in mind they are paying him as a supposed qualified spark, as you can imagine the customer went mad and when I arrived asked me to take over the job as they had lost confidence with him, and after looking at this extremely complex wiring system that he had told me about, it turned out to be a simple case of previous spark had used the switches to loop in and out as opposed to using the pendants. so as you can see these Electrical Trainee are totally out of their depth and shouldn't be allowed to advertise and trade as qualified electricians. 17 days is simply not enough time to educate someone and these schemes should be banned.

 

[snowhead]

when they advertise and get a call from joe public, don't customers ask to see a card that would show u are qualified ??

Or do people just trust at face value if it's said John Electrical Trainee is qualified then he must be and must know what he's doing?

There is no card that a customer could understand proving you are qualified to do the work they want.

Most customers don't even understand Corgi / Gassafe cards.

Customers seem to take most tradespersons, regardless of trade, on thier word that they can do the work competently.

Cowboy Builders and Rogue Traders on T.V would having nothing to do if all tradepersons could regulated.
Sadly it's impossible.

 

[Engineer54]

You only have to look at the threads in the Electricians Courses & Training and see the dross written by some of these self proclaimed so -called successful 17 Day whizz kids and electrical trainee's!! One guy reckons he is taking students on for work experience by the same company that he did his 5 Week course with. Don't suppose this idiot for a second, thought the same could have happened to him. What do they say, ...something about the blind leading the blind!! lol!!

You really need to read this post by ''Simonherts''....( he's only made 2 posts on the forum) It's a long post, basically telling everyone how clever he is and how successful he has become. Another classic within the same long post is '' I was wound up by the comment that the only reason I work for myself is because no-one else would have me. I don't think that's fair and it's a bit of a cheap shot.'' The guy is absolutely convinced he is now just as qualified as any electrician that's served his time!!

Another guy on the same thread reckons that time served sparks are fine with those taking the electrical trainee courses. They just seem to be convincing themselves of all sorts in this end of the forum!!

 

[moospark]

This whole thread smacks of narcissism and insecurity. If you are all so hot, why are you even doing domestic? There is plenty else out there.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Who the hell will employ a Electrical Trainee wannabe over a fully qualified electrician?? No -one, and why the vast majority of these 17 Day/electrical trainee's are self employed!! One thing is for sure, you'll not find any of these wannabe's on JIB/SJIB sites working as electricians

yes...and whats this i hear about how they take on lots of work....?

i`m sure they do but how many of em manage to complete said works with any level of competancy evident?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

This whole thread smacks of narcissism and insecurity. If you are all so hot, why are you even doing domestic?

well..i do domestic and commercial....in fact more of my recent stuff has been commercial 3 phase stuff....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You only have to look at the threads in the Electricians Courses & Training and see the dross written by some of these self proclaimed so -called successful 17 Day whizz kids and electrical trainee's!! One guy reckons he is taking students on for work experience by the same company that he did his 5 Week course with. Don't suppose this idiot for a second, thought the same could have happened to him. What do they say, ...something about the blind leading the blind!! lol!!

You really need to read this post by ''Simonherts''....( he's only made 2 posts on the forum) It's a long post, basically telling everyone how clever he is and how successful he has become. Another classic within the same long post is '' I was wound up by the comment that the only reason I work for myself is because no-one else would have me. I don't think that's fair and it's a bit of a cheap shot.'' The guy is absolutely convinced he is now just as qualified as any electrician that's served his time!!

Another guy on the same thread reckons that time served sparks are fine with those taking the electrical trainee courses. They just seem to be convincing themselves of all sorts in this end of the forum!!

well...its a bit like westminster then isn`t it....the blind leading the blind n all that lot....

and the endless campaigns to convince themselves of their own righteousness....

lolffs....lol...

 

[GMES]

This whole thread smacks of narcissism and insecurity. If you are all so hot, why are you even doing domestic? There is plenty else out there.

Domestic work is always at the bottom of my list, as I am industrial & commercial but do domestic usually for my regular clients who want jobs doing at their homes and to be fair with the money they spend with me to look after their factories and shops I can't and wont refuse to do their homes. and what is wrong with doing domestic work, as long as your competent. there are many well established and extremely competent and knowledgeable electricians on here who treat there workmanship with pride, it is the disillusioned Electrical Trainee that are spoiling things imo. as they are not competent enough or knowledgeable enough to class themselves qualified, but you try telling them that.

 

[moospark]

well..i do domestic and commercial....in fact more of my recent stuff has been commercial 3 phase stuff....

Fair play, truth be told I find it's easier. Stuff comes out of the box, gets tested, fitted, tested, powered, go home. No dealing with 30 year old spaghetti bodge for £nowt. (well less anyway).

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Fair play, truth be told I find it's easier. Stuff comes out of the box, gets tested, fitted, tested, powered, go home. No dealing with 30 year old spaghetti bodge for £nowt. (well less anyway).

as far as i`m concerned spaghetti bodge gets tested at either the furthest point...or at a convenient outlet (ring)...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i mean just read the title of this thread will you `defence of the Electrical Trainee`....

need we say more...

 

[Engineer54]

Fair play, truth be told I find it's easier. Stuff comes out of the box, gets tested, fitted, tested, powered, go home. No dealing with 30 year old spaghetti bodge for £nowt. (well less anyway).

Are you saying that industrial and commercial installations don't have 30/40 year old spaghetti cable situations and bodges?? I'd go as far as saying, you would be far more likely to see Spaghetti and bodge work from old factory or commercial's that have long since seen hide nor hair of any maintenance dept's electrician. lol!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You only have to look at the threads in the Electricians Courses & Training and see the dross written by some of these self proclaimed so -called successful 17 Day whizz kids and electrical trainee's!! One guy reckons he is taking students on for work experience by the same company that he did his 5 Week course with. Don't suppose this idiot for a second, thought the same could have happened to him. What do they say, ...something about the blind leading the blind!! lol!!

You really need to read this post by ''Simonherts''....( he's only made 2 posts on the forum) It's a long post, basically telling everyone how clever he is and how successful he has become. Another classic within the same long post is '' I was wound up by the comment that the only reason I work for myself is because no-one else would have me. I don't think that's fair and it's a bit of a cheap shot.'' The guy is absolutely convinced he is now just as qualified as any electrician that's served his time!!

Another guy on the same thread reckons that time served sparks are fine with those taking the electrical trainee courses. They just seem to be convincing themselves of all sorts in this end of the forum!!

stylish..

 

[Chrisuk]

I will give you an example Chris, I know a Electrical Trainee he paid £ 2500.00 for a 17 day course with elecsa and came out with a piece of paper saying that he was a qualified domestic installer, and then went self employed on the advice of elecsa. By is own admission he had not got a clue what he was doing on his own so he came with me for a week free of charge to try and pick up a few bits of advice, he was a lovely lad but he scared me to death as he had never worked with electricity prior to the 17 day course.
During the week he was with me he got a call from someone who saw is advertisement in the local rag and needed a small job doing, so off he went and within an hour he was on the phone asking for help. He explained to me down the phone that the job required him to move a light switch from one side of the door to the opposite side, but the way the previous spark had wired it it was to complicated for him ( those were his words ) I said I might struggle to try and explain down phone so without chance to stop him he turned round to HIS customer and said would they mind if I came round and showed him how to do the job. bearing in mind they are paying him as a supposed qualified spark, as you can imagine the customer went mad and when I arrived asked me to take over the job as they had lost confidence with him, and after looking at this extremely complex wiring system that he had told me about, it turned out to be a simple case of previous spark had used the switches to loop in and out as opposed to using the pendants. so as you can see these Electrical Trainee are totally out of their depth and shouldn't be allowed to advertise and trade as qualified electricians. 17 days is simply not enough time to educate someone and these schemes should be banned.

That is scary that a "qualified" spark is out and about in homes working with that little knowledge, he was extremely lucky to get the chance to work with u, that's what I want some work experience!! I did a nights work with Paul.M which was great and I really appreciated the opportunity he gave me.

 

[moospark]

Are you saying that industrial and commercial installations don't have 30/40 year old spaghetti cable situations and bodges?? I'd go as far as saying, you would be far more likely to see Spaghetti and bodge work from old factory or commercial's that have long since seen hide nor hair of any maintenance dept's electrician. lol!!

Not saying that at all, and I much respect your input on this forum. Just that I find 2+2 =4 more often on "light (LV) industrial" that I do.

 

[Engineer54]

That is scary that a "qualified" spark is out and about in homes working with that little knowledge, he was extremely lucky to get the chance to work with u, that's what I want some work experience!! I did a nights work with Paul.M which was great and I really appreciated the opportunity he gave me.

This is like pulling teeth Chrisuk!!!! Get it straight in you're mind/head once and for all!! These electrical trainee's and 17 Day Whizz kids are ''NOT Qualified'' and are ''NOT Sparks'' ....End Of!!

So putting both together, There is therefore no such animal/thing as a Qualified electrical trainee or even more so, a 17 Day Whizz kid wannabe, Spark!!

 

[moospark]

as far as i`m concerned spaghetti bodge gets tested at either the furthest point...or at a convenient outlet (ring)...

Aye, test first, 'cos you have responsibility once you get in to it. Bugger when you've quoted ten bob.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Aye, test first, 'cos you have responsibility once you get in to it. Bugger when you've quoted ten bob.

only for works you do....
obviously if you see something dangerous whilst there then you have a duty of care to inform the person/s ordering the work of what you have found.....then you could offer remedial or to disconnect...and i stress the word offer....caus you would be still going over your remit if you just started disconnection/carrying out remedial without permission