Initial sequence

[Plonker 3]

And of it's fed from a sub DB fed from a sub DB? No past results available? Back to the old dangerous live testing then isn't it.

 

[Plonker 3]

All this carping on about no live testing, you can't work live is just to protect the incompetent/unqualified otherwise known as Dave down or the pub or Electrical Trainee.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Ze+(r1+r2)=Zs

Isn't determining Ze a live test?!

 

[GMES]

I'm guessing the schemes will accept a ze by enquiry and a zs by calculation thus only leaving the dead tests to be carried out by the pet mong sorry I mean short course trained operative!!

 

[Silly Sausage]

So, by not being allowed to do any live testing, high Z ees (due to external supply faults whathaveyou), wouldn't get picked up.
It's all bollox!

 

[GMES]

So, by not being allowed to do any live testing, high Z ees (due to external supply faults whathaveyou), wouldn't get picked up.
It's all bollox!

I fully agree mate but sadly with the way things are governed now, it will be the future way for all newcomers to the trade.

 

[wozz]

Growl!

dont follow, enlighten me please.

 

[trev]

Isn't determining Ze a live test?!

Ze is allowable by enquiry.
Yes, I know.....

 

[trev]

dont follow, enlighten me please.

I despise the NIC mate

 

[wozz]

I see, them and the QS system is one of the biggest problems in the industry.

 

[Sintra]

This is all total bs. Ze by enquiry is nonsense given the amount of times if seen a TN system with a stupidly high Ze. Also a Zs is the only test that encompasses the complete circuit including protective devices which can have high impedances which all this calculating rubbish will not find. I though the point of testing was to prove the installation is safe for the users.

 

[trev]

I see, them and the QS system is one of the biggest problems in the industry.

Which brings me back to my crusade against them.....

 

[trev]

This is all total bs. Ze by enquiry is nonsense

And as you know, most of us know that. There is no substitute for measurement

 

[shanky887614]

What is now deemed to be essential H&S really boils my wee. How come properly trained (or supposedly properly trained) electricians are now not skilled enough to carry out a live test or two without endangering themselves or other people?
Like most I was taught how to do these things and many others that would now curl the hair of an on site H&S bod. I've worked live when there's been no other option, I've done so after carrying out my own risk assessment and putting a method statement in my own head. I've never needed someone with a clipboard and no electrical knowledge to stand behind me telling me what I'm doing is either right or wrong.
The entire world is going to hell in a handcart

my method statement is quite simple, lock the doors with key in lock/use other deterants to keep them occupied.

last resort is a lookout to sing/whistle along with song when he spots anyone around

 

[Engineer54]

I am not disagreeing with you, i am just telling you how it is. Read and understand the EAWR. The problem with the people who write all this legislation etc, consider ALL of us to be thick Electricians, and so try to minimise danger and if we go against the law and it goes pear shaped then we cop for it.

So please don't shoot the messenger.

Cheers............Howard

Are you sure the live EAWR working rules rules apply to testing procedures??

All this load of old crap about live working, doesn't apply to electrical testing, if it did, we all might as well pack our bags and call it a day!! Live tests are an essential necessity full stop, no matter what these half wits have to say... I suppose next, they'll be telling you, voltage testers cannot be used to test /check voltages above 50 Volts, or that you can't test/check phase rotation, ....and so on and so on!!

Hmm, ...Just a thought, so what does EAWR state about voltage testing and phasing out testing on live MV/HV systems, or is that against EAWR too?? lol!!!

Jesus the UK has got to be fast becoming the laughing stock of Europe, if not the world...

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm not sure what Howard is referring to within EAWR.
From memory, it only states that Live Working should be avoided if at all possible.
I'm not checking at this hour!

 

[shanky887614]

I'm not sure what Howard is referring to within EAWR.
From memory, it only states that Live Working should be avoided if at all possible.
I'm not checking at this hour!

your right there.

it is along the line of "live working should only be undertaken if it is reasonably unpractical to work dead"

 

[Silly Sausage]

your right there.

it is along the line of "live working should only be undertaken if it is reasonably unpractical to work dead"

Good to see you know your 'Statutory Instruments'.
Not so sure about the dubious ability of being able to quote them at 12'o'clock on Friday night though!

 

[shanky887614]

Good to see you know your 'Statutory Instruments'.
Not so sure about the dubious ability of being able to quote them at 12'o'clock on Friday night though!

good considering I havent even looked in book or used that info for two years, ive got a good memory.

 

[ferg]

IIRC, which I might not, when I was doing the 2391 we were told working live should be avoided unless absolutely necessary, so therefore if it can be calculated.....

I knew it was nonsense then and I know it is nonsense now.
My theory was... do as you are told pass the exam and when in the real world do it properly.

This is one of the main areas where Short courses and college only routes let down trainees.

Obviously a respect for those pesky little electrons is healthy.
In the real world we need to work live from time to time so being able to do it safely is of the utmost importance.