Level 2 electrical installation course

[swaRRR]

Apprenticeships begin at level 2 for students who don't gain the required GCSEs.

Not in England. An apprenticeship is Level 3 and if you don't have the GCSE's you do core maths and English as separate subjects alongside your other studies. I know because they made me do this at college; despite having A Levels in English and Maths (i did them off my own back as an adult learner with no GCSE's from school) i had to do the Maths and English core skills because i didn't have them in GCSE form.

Whatever 'level 2' you're made to do before the actual apprenticeship i don't know but an actual apprenticeship is Level 3 - you can't do one up to Level 2 and then just stop.

 

[Matter]

Apprenticeships begin at level 2 for students who don't gain the required GCSEs.

My point was more about the fact that this should all be weighed on balance...

College route requires time and expense of level 2, which for most people will be a waste of both. While people could follow your advice, fluff up their CV and apply for mate/improver positions, this may still leave them struggling to complete portfolio and gain NVQ. While you clearly have issues with the apprenticeship route for mature learners, my experience has been very different from yours and this at least demonstrates that matters are not so clear cut as one man's experience. I've been exceptionally lucky working mostly in industrial sites, with a decent amount of commercial work and occasionally domestic. My biggest challenge is remembering to take the time to document work, but that's something I need to focus on this year - realistically I could have gathered enough photographic evidence in year one to complete the NVQ portfolio.

As an apprentice your employer undertakes to provide the necessary time and experience required to complete every aspect of that apprenticeship and a suitably motivated apprentice could be through their AM2 in just over 3 years. I'd be curious to know what percentage of those going the college route would pass their AM2 within that timescale.

That's what I'm worried about the time and.£1635 cost of the level 2.

 

[nicebutdim]

Not in England. An apprenticeship is Level 3 and if you don't have the GCSE's you do core maths and English as separate subjects alongside your other studies. I know because they made me do this at college; despite having A Levels in English and Maths (i did them off my own back as an adult learner with no GCSE's from school) i had to do the Maths and English core skills because i didn't have them in GCSE form.

Whatever 'level 2' you're made to do before the actual apprenticeship i don't know but an actual apprenticeship is Level 3 - you can't do one up to Level 2 and then just stop.

Here it is still treated as an apprenticeship, but those who begin at level 2 will need an extra year to complete. I didn't know that GB had effected this change in a different manner, but my core point remains about colleges mandating level 2 being a waste of time and money for many learners.

That's what I'm worried about the time and.£1635 cost of the level 2.

I've never seen a college option that doesn't require level 2, but the only way of avoiding this (without being able to demonstrate 5 years experience) is by going the apprenticeship route.

 

[Matter]

Here it is still treated as an apprenticeship, but those who begin at level 2 will need an extra year to complete. I didn't know that GB had effected this change in a different manner, but my core point remains about colleges mandating level 2 being a waste of time and money for many learners.



I've never seen a college option that doesn't require level 2, but the only way of avoiding this (without being able to demonstrate 5 years experience) is by going the apprenticeship route.

I should learn at least something on the level 2? I would then have to hope a local college starts doing a level 3 course

 

[Matter]

I know some one who has the level 2 electrical installation diapolma. And he went on and did his inspection and testing so the level 2 must open some doors?

 

[nicebutdim]

I'm fairly certain there are no entry requirements to inspection and testing courses, but an understanding of fundamentals would obviously be a great help.

 

[swaRRR]

I know some one who has the level 2 electrical installation diapolma. And he went on and did his inspection and testing so the level 2 must open some doors?

There are different testing and inspection quals. One is the 2392 which is basically worthless and not recognised but it's a good primer for the 2391 which is the other one. That can be split into parts - 2391-50 which is initial verification, 2391-51 which is periodic inspection, and the 2391-52 which is both combined.

 

[Matter]

I'd budget £5k for it. Also you need to get in gear if you want to start - college started this week. You'll still be able to get inducted if you hurry.

You have know people to join a week or 2 in to the course?

 

[Lister1987]

You have know people to join a week or 2 in to the course?

Not so much, colleges know they'll have a handful drop out in the first few weeks so not uncommon to start a week or so in

 

[Matter]

Not so much, colleges know they'll have a handful drop out in the first few weeks so not uncommon to start a week or so in

Thanks those that drop out would lose all there money. If funded there self. I big lose

 

[Lister1987]

Thanks those that drop out would lose all there money. If funded there self. I big lose

Most colleges would redirect to a more suited course so the money isn't "lost" in thr eyes of a student and thr college still get a set of course fees

 

[ScottIsleOfArran]

I'm also in a position of retraining and currently weighing up my options.
If (IF) you are only looking at doing domestic stuff, as I am (based on very little industry in my area), then you can do your 18th Edition (C&G2382-18:A2) and your Initial verification/testing/inspection (C&G2391-52) as @swaRRR mentioned up-front (these will be required for just about anything electrical) and you could do the C&G5393 - DOMESTIC NVQ3. Within this 5393, I have found that there is a module for 18th edition, and a module for Inspection and testing, so what this option may offer you, is a way to START getting some paperwork, and then cut the modules out of the 5393 course. They allow what is known as RPL - Recognised Prior Learning, where if you have covered all of the material in a module, then you can bypass it by applying your already earned credentials to it.

Here's the downside though - 5393 hasn't officially been given the go-live yet! However, there have been updates to the C&G 5393 page within the last 8 days, so there is 'some' movement on it. 5393 also has no pre-requisites for 2365 L2/L3 diplomas, so you can start directly on the NVQ3 DOMESTIC.
If you are already in plumbing/gas, then you are unlikely short of work anyway, so learning in between jobs on the 18th edition and 2392-52 will be a good use of your time until C&G pull their thumb out of their peach!

This of course, is dependant on you only wanting to do domestic stuff ONLY!

If you want to do commercial too, then scrap everything I said about 5393 and do as many people have already told you here and get a job doing the donkey-work onsite and get an employer to put you through the Apprenticeship IF YOU HAVE THE TIME!

 

[Matter]

Is the city and guilds 5393 a college course or will it be?

 

[ScottIsleOfArran]

Is the city and guilds 5393 a college course or will it be?

Everything I know about it, I have found out in the last 24 hours. Do as I am doing - have a look around the internet, call some colleges and input your findings to this forum - that's the beauty of forums - everybody does a little bit and everyone else enjoys the spoils.... But that relies on everybody putting their "little bit" into the information pot

 

[nicebutdim]

If you want to do commercial too, then scrap everything I said about 5393 and do as many people have already told you here and get a job doing the donkey-work onsite and get an employer to put you through the Apprenticeship IF YOU HAVE THE TIME!

I'd contend that time ought to be the number one investment for anyone wishing to re-train. This isn't a 'train and go' industry and anyone who thinks a quick route is a golden ticket, will sooner or later find themselves with their trousers pulled down around their ankles.

That's not to say that quick routes don't have their place, but they should be considered a stepping stone. No matter what route you take, the learning curve is going to be steep.

 

[swaRRR]

I'm also in a position of retraining and currently weighing up my options.
If (IF) you are only looking at doing domestic stuff, as I am (based on very little industry in my area), then you can do your 18th Edition (C&G2382-18:A2) and your Initial verification/testing/inspection (C&G2391-52) as @swaRRR mentioned up-front (these will be required for just about anything electrical) and you could do the C&G5393 - DOMESTIC NVQ3. Within this 5393, I have found that there is a module for 18th edition, and a module for Inspection and testing, so what this option may offer you, is a way to START getting some paperwork, and then cut the modules out of the 5393 course. They allow what is known as RPL - Recognised Prior Learning, where if you have covered all of the material in a module, then you can bypass it by applying your already earned credentials to it.

Here's the downside though - 5393 hasn't officially been given the go-live yet! However, there have been updates to the C&G 5393 page within the last 8 days, so there is 'some' movement on it. 5393 also has no pre-requisites for 2365 L2/L3 diplomas, so you can start directly on the NVQ3 DOMESTIC.
If you are already in plumbing/gas, then you are unlikely short of work anyway, so learning in between jobs on the 18th edition and 2392-52 will be a good use of your time until C&G pull their thumb out of their peach!

This of course, is dependant on you only wanting to do domestic stuff ONLY!

If you want to do commercial too, then scrap everything I said about 5393 and do as many people have already told you here and get a job doing the donkey-work onsite and get an employer to put you through the Apprenticeship IF YOU HAVE THE TIME!

You got any links so i can read about this new NVQ?

 

[Lister1987]

Everything I know about it, I have found out in the last 24 hours. Do as I am doing - have a look around the internet, call some colleges and input your findings to this forum - that's the beauty of forums - everybody does a little bit and everyone else enjoys the spoils.... But that relies on everybody putting their "little bit" into the information pot

TESP may have more information on thier website as (iirc) the Domestic NVQ is their abomination brainchild.

 

[swaRRR]

I'd contend that time ought to be the number one investment for anyone wishing to re-train. This isn't a 'train and go' industry and anyone who thinks a quick route is a golden ticket, will sooner or later find themselves with their trousers pulled down around their ankles.

That's not to say that quick routes don't have their place, but they should be considered a stepping stone. No matter what route you take, the learning curve is going to be steep.

The problem is most people don't actually want to do it quickly - especially adult retrainers, they want to do it properly but the opportunities are slim and real world wages don't correlate with training. I'm not gonna drop five to eight grand getting my level 3, with which i still can't get on site as anything but a skilled labourer and still need to pay for 18th edition, testing and inspection, nvq and AM2 to be considered worthy. It's too much of a financial burden for most people.

 

[nicebutdim]

The problem is most people don't actually want to do it quickly - especially adult retrainers, they want to do it properly but the opportunities are slim and real world wages don't correlate with training. I'm not gonna drop five to eight grand getting my level 3, with which i still can't get on site as anything but a skilled labourer and still need to pay for 18th edition, testing and inspection, nvq and AM2 to be considered worthy. It's too much of a financial burden for most people.

That's fair comment, but the post I was responding to specifically mentioned time.

 

[Matter]

So I rang my local college a couple of weeks back. But sadly they said there weren't taking any more people on this year. But would ring back if a place became available in the next two weeks.

 

[Matter]

Has anyone done the distant learning on level 2 were you fo the theory online. And just attend somewhere to do the practical? I can't see it being as good as being in the classroom in all fairness.

 

[Lister1987]

Has anyone done the distant learning on level 2 were you fo the theory online. And just attend somewhere to do the practical? I can't see it being as good as being in the classroom in all fairness.

Class of COVID; It all boils down to self-discipline. If you want it bad enough then you'll make damn sure the experience you get is as good as face-to-face. It it's one of these "here's your tutors email, any questions let us know" kinda deals then I'd be hounding the crap out of them with ever and any questions I had. Get the books, find out further reading, immerse yourself in learning and CPD.

Said it before and I'll say it again; you get out what you put in, if you're happy to coast through then more power to you but if you're motivated enough then the lack of classroom won't be an obstacle for you.

 

[Matter]

Thanks can anyone recommend good areas to learn online. Any good YouTube channels etc I learnt alot for plumbing and gas on forums. But obviously at the moment if I read alot on here alot wouldn't make too much sense yet.

 

[nicebutdim]

Thanks can anyone recommend good areas to learn online. Any good YouTube channels etc I learnt alot for plumbing and gas on forums. But obviously at the moment if I read alot on here alot wouldn't make too much sense yet.

John Ward's YouTube channel is excellent. Great presentation of information.

 

[Lister1987]

Thanks can anyone recommend good areas to learn online. Any good YouTube channels etc I learnt alot for plumbing and gas on forums. But obviously at the moment if I read alot on here alot wouldn't make too much sense yet.

In no particular order

Efixx (YouTube and efixx.co.uk)
John Ward (YouTube and flameport.com)
Joe Robinson Training (YouTube)
GSH Electrical (YouTube)
The Engineering Mindset (YouTube)
Swindon Massive (SwindonMassive.co.uk)
Adrian Davey (YouTube)
SparkyNinja (YouTube)
Team e5 (YouTube)

Should get you started

ETA JPElectric for his excellent illustrations; https://www.youtube.com/c/JPElectric