Lighting circuit through airing cupboard

[AlanD]

Hi

I am running a new upstairs lighting circuit and need to find a route down to the consumer unit which is in the cupboard under the stairs. The easiest and least disruptive route would be via the airing cupboard, in trunking, then under the floor from which I can drop down through the ceiling into the cupboard.

Are there any issues with running through the airing cupboard due to heat? Do I need to maybe run through in 2.5mm rather that the 1.5mm used on the rest of the circuit?

The lighting circuit will have 3 standard light pendants, 1 ceiling fan/light, 6 downlights (LED bulbs), 2 flourescent lights in the loft and the bathroom mirror (LED lights, Demister and shaving socket).

I will have an electrician come in to do testing and connection to consumer unit.

Thanks

 

[Taylortwocities]

T&E cables are spec'ed to run with a conductor temperature of 70degs C.
A lighting circuit run in 1.5mm cable will be fine for what you have in mind.

However (I'll say it before anyone else). You say

I will have an electrician come in to do testing and connection to consumer unit.

But in his/her testing and notification (to the local authority) he/she will declare that he/she has DESIGNED,INSTALLED and TESTED it him/herself. And they will not have.....

You need to get your spark on board before you start to ensure that they are prepared to sign on the dotted line. Most don't do things that way round.
Its like you installing a gas boiler and expecting a GasSafe plumber to sign it of.....

 

[SparkyChick]

Hi Alan,

Welcome to the forums.

First up, are you aware that as this circuit will be serving a special location (the bathroom - see page 6 of Approved Document P - 2013 edition which is applicable in England) that a building control notification will be required?

Due to the extent of the works (it sounds like complete rewire of a particular circuit), an electrical installation certificate will also be required upon completion of the works.

Whilst there is provision within Part P to allow a Third Party to certify such works, the certifying party must also (at least in my understanding) be the designer of the installation. What this means for you is that the person you have come and inspect/test the completed works, must be engaged for the purpose before work commences. They will design the installation which you can then install to their specification. When the work is in progress, they are likely to want to come and inspect it (before walls are closed for example) to ensure you are following their design. You cannot just engage an electrician to come and certify somebody elses works.

With regards to the size of cable required for the installation, factoring in the environmental factors would be part of the design process.

 

[Spoon]

Not much point in posting...
All has been covered in post 2 & 3

 

[AlanD]

Hi,

Thanks for your very quick and informative responses

I have already spoken to an electrician and he is happy to work with me in this way. When we discussed he said he is able to sign off other people’s work and make

The cabling in the bathroom is not changing, this was installed around a year ago ( by the same electrician) so will only be the connection the the junction box in the loft I am replacing.

My plan is to draw up a plan of exactly what I am going to run and what routes it will take before hand, go through with him and then install along side existing connections.

He can then inspect and dead test before anything gets connected to power.

Does this sound sensible or am I going to run into and issues with certificates etc?

We have started decorating in a new house and come across all sorts of issues with the wiring e.g every upstairs socket only having a single cable in and junction boxes being used under the floor. Getting an electrician in to do it in one hit will be too disruptive and don’t really have the cash at the moment. Doing it this way I can do it mostly room by room and then get him in for a day or so for testing and final connections.

 

[telectrix]

as long as your sparks is happy with this, then i see no problem.

 

[AlanD]

as long as your sparks is happy with this, then i see no problem.

Great, thanks for the advice. Can't believe how quick I got a response on here

 

[telectrix]

Great, thanks for the advice. Can't believe how quick I got a response on here

it's coz all us old coffin dodgers only work till 4 pm. having got up early for a pee, 4 am, then slept till after j.kyle was gone , that's enough work for 1 day.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Your spark should have helped design this.. Why are we helping you design it?

 

[AlanD]

Your spark should have helped design this.. Why are we helping you design it?

Like I said, I am putting a plan together and will go through it with him, in the mean time I thought I would post on here for some friendly advice.

 

[Andy78]

Like I said, I am putting a plan together and will go through it with him, in the mean time I thought I would post on here for some friendly advice.

It should be up to the person who will be signing the certificate to design the work in this instance.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Like I said, I am putting a plan together and will go through it with him, in the mean time I thought I would post on here for some friendly advice.

Sorry I didn't mean to be confrontational just... I'll stop.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

It should be up to the person who will be signing the certificate to design the work in this instance.

This

In any case op, as others have said yes, it's fine.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Are there any issues with running through the airing cupboard due to heat? Do I need to maybe run through in 2.5mm rather that the 1.5mm used on the rest of the circuit?

Why have you used oversized 1.5mm squared when 1.0mm is perfectly adequate, even in the airing cupboard?

 

[GeorgeCooke]

e.g every upstairs socket only having a single cable in and junction boxes being used under the floor.

Although not normally done this way there is no reason you can't have a ring with every socket a spur off it.

 

[AlanD]

It should be up to the person who will be signing the certificate to design the work in this instance.

Yep and he will sign the design off before any work starts. Given that I know the layout of the house I think it makes sense to do a first draft and then he can advise on any alterations that need to be made to the design before I start running any cable, chasing sockets etc.

 

[AlanD]

It should be up to the person who will be signing the certificate to design the work in this instance.

Yep and he will sign the design off before any work starts. Given that I know the layout of the house I think it makes sense to do a first draft and then he can advise on any alterations that need to be made to the design before I start running any cable, chasing sockets etc.

Why have you used oversized 1.5mm squared when 1.0mm is perfectly adequate, even in the airing cupboard?

 

[Taylortwocities]

he will sign the design off before any work starts.

In that case, I am wondering why you are asking design questions on an Internet forum?

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Yep and he will sign the design off before any work starts. Given that I know the layout of the house I think it makes sense to do a first draft and then he can advise on any alterations that need to be made to the design before I start running any cable, chasing sockets etc.

OK fair enough, it's on his head then

In that case, I am wondering why you are asking design questions on an Internet forum?

I already said that... Keep up

 

[AlanD]

In that case, I am wondering why you are asking design on an Internet forum?

Sorry am I doing something wrong by asking this question here? I simply asked if it was ok to route an 1.5mm cable through an airing cupboard or not. Didn’t realise this would be such as issue for people.

Please feel free to ignore my post if you don’t want to add anything constructive

 

[AlanD]

Why have you used oversized 1.5mm squared when 1.0mm is perfectly adequate, even in the airing cupboard?

My understanding was that 1.5mm was standard for lighting circuits? Is this not the case? I guess 1.5mm would future proof to a certain degree say if I decide to do more downlights in future.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

Swings and roundabouts really.

 

[AlanD]

Although not normally done this way there is no reason you can't have a ring with every socket a spur off it.

That was what the electrician said but the cable is also pretty old (red and black) so think it is best to just get it done now before we finish decorating, putting flooring down etc.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

If your decorating why not chase any cables in? Instead of running trunking etc.?

 

[AlanD]

If your decorating why not chase any cables in? Instead of running trunking etc.?

We’re living here while doing it so trying to reduce the amount of chasing if possible due to dust etc. Thinking that running a bit of trunking on the back of the airing cupboard will be less messy, easier and make it easily accessible if it ever need to be changed / rewired in the future.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

We’re living here while doing it so trying to reduce the amount of chasing if possible due to dust etc. Thinking that running a bit of trunking on the back of the airing cupboard will be less messy, easier and make it easily accessible if it ever need to be changed / rewired in the future.

I just haaaaate trunking

 

[Taylortwocities]

Please feel free to ignore my post if you don’t want to add anything constructive

Sorry, I thought that I had. See my post #2 right at the start of this thread.

 

[AlanD]

I just haaaaate trunking

Good job you won’t have to look at it then

 

[AlanD]

Sorry, I thought that I had. See my post #2 right at the start of this thread.

You did indeed, thank you very much for that response

 

[GeorgeCooke]

My understanding was that 1.5mm was standard for lighting circuits? Is this not the case? I guess 1.5mm would future proof to a certain degree say if I decide to do more downlights in future.

No. Lots of people seem to use it unnecessarily. 1.0mm is OK for up to 16 amps. Lighting circuits are typically 6 amps so 1.0mm is more than adequate even with more downlight than you could possibly need.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

That was what the electrician said but the cable is also pretty old (red and black) so think it is best to just get it done now before we finish decorating, putting flooring down etc.

Red and black cable could be as new as 13 years ago. The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

No. Lots of people seem to use it unnecessarily. 1.0mm is OK for up to 16 amps. Lighting circuits are typically 6 amps so 1.0mm is more than adequate even with more downlight than you could possibly need.

I doubt in most situations you'll achieve 16 a on 1.0mm...

 

[Spoon]

I doubt in most situations you'll achieve 16 a on 1.0mm...

@GeorgeCooke did state "up to 16 amp"... so technically that is correct..... So are you....

 

[AlanD]

No. Lots of people seem to use it unnecessarily. 1.0mm is OK for up to 16 amps. Lighting circuits are typically 6 amps so 1.0mm is more than adequate even with more downlight than you could possibly need.

That’s interesting to know, Thanks!

I already have the 1.5mm cable but might use 1.0mm for the light switch drops as might get that through the existing chase’s

 

[AlanD]

Red and black cable could be as new as 13 years ago. The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

We had a dual RCD consumer unit installed when we bought the house and the spark changed a light fitting in the kitchen for us. He said then that the cable was starting to degrade although all tested fine but recommended we rewire at some point.

 

['mr2'gd4u]

No. Lots of people seem to use it unnecessarily. 1.0mm is OK for up to 16 amps. Lighting circuits are typically 6 amps so 1.0mm is more than adequate even with more downlight than you could possibly need.

I doubt it most situations you'll achieve 16 a on 1.0mm...

@GeorgeCooke did state "up to 16 amp"... so technically that is correct..... So are you....

Yea true, still... not likely.

 

[telectrix]

36 posts when all OP wanted to know if it was acceptable to run a lighting feed surface in an airing cupboard, Sheesh. answer is YES. end of .

 

[GeorgeCooke]

That was what the electrician said but the cable is also pretty old (red and black) so think it is best to just get it done now before we finish decorating, putting flooring down etc.

Red and black cable could be as new as 13 years ago. The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

We had a dual RCD consumer unit installed when we bought the house and the spark changed a light fitting in the kitchen for us. He said then that the cable was starting to degrade although all tested fine but recommended we rewire at some point.

Perhaps the previous fitting overheated the end of the cable, in which case it needed cutting back a bit. Or perhaps the spark was looking for unnecessary work. Modern cable, whatever the colours, has a life in excess of 50 years.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

Providing that it passes essential tests such as continuity and insulation resistance.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

although all tested fine

 

[AlanD]

Red and black cable could be as new as 13 years ago. The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

Perhaps the previous fitting overheated the end of the cable, in which case it needed cutting back a bit. Or perhaps the spark was looking for unnecessary work. Modern cable, whatever the colours, has a life in excess of 50 years.

I'm sure you may well be correct. The house is now 43 years old so it may well be original and coming to the end of it's life.

For me, I would feel a lot happier just getting it out of the way now and then I will know I don't have to worry about it again. Knowing there are question marks over how old and how much the install has been hacked about over the years will play on my mind so I'll just crack on and get it done.

Really appreciate the honest advice you have given here. Thanks

 

[SparkyChick]

Red and black cable could be as new as 13 years ago. The life span of such cable is well in excess of 50 years so no need to replace.

Perhaps the previous fitting overheated the end of the cable, in which case it needed cutting back a bit. Or perhaps the spark was looking for unnecessary work. Modern cable, whatever the colours, has a life in excess of 50 years.

There is an important caveat missing from these statements about cable life, and it is critical, so I'll fill in what I consider to be the missing bits....

"Modern cable, whatever the colours can have a life in excess of 50 years, providing environmental factors do not prematurely degrade it."

I have many examples of modern cables that have lasted much less than 50 years (some only a couple of years old) and it's usually been down to their environment.