Lights - Why is the my supply switch controlling my new one?

[Avo Mk8]

So I have the live and neutral to the quick fit connectors keeping it to a single cable to the terminal in the switch. How would I go about connecting the live and neutral to the hallway lights using the single cable i have running to the 4G switch. Does it matter if they share the same 'connector' fitting. To be clear this is the type I'm using...
View attachment 103294

Sorry I'm not quite understanding the issue.
Yes you can put another L cable into the unoccupied slot of the non-wago Wago!
Similarly for a neutral into a further Wago, and earth etc.
But they will ultimately have to be put in an enclosure, which also encloses all single insulated bits of cable.
(Search "Wago box")
eg WAGOBOX Junction Box 108 x 39 x 44 mm | Toolstation - https://www.toolstation.com/wagobox-junction-box/p92231

 

[kreatiff63]

Sorry I'm not quite understanding the issue.
Yes you can put another L cable into the unoccupied slot of the non-wago Wago!
Similarly for a neutral into a further Wago, and earth etc.
But they will ultimately have to be put in an enclosure, which also encloses all single insulated bits of cable.
(Search "Wago box")
eg WAGOBOX Junction Box 108 x 39 x 44 mm | Toolstation - https://www.toolstation.com/wagobox-junction-box/p92231

I'm not sure whats causing the issue but I'm getting weird behaviour, it may be overloading. The lights stopped working altogether after switching on the kitchen lights and then the outdoor lights (all in the same 4g switch). The 32amp tripped when turning the power back on, but stayed up once i tried the switch again.

I take your point about working tidy as it were, while I'm in 'seeing what works' mode I'm taking shortcuts, cables pinned in place, sheeths etc. Once I know I've got the solution there will be a 'completion' phase.

Back to the issue at hand...

Q: Does the mere fact its a 32amp circuit I've linked into have the type of impact I'm seeing, and if not then is it simply a question of re-wiring the JB to include my new L/N to the switch. Does it mean that I already have an issue on that circuit which I'm simply exaserbating with the additional wiring. I'm using 1.5mm cable for the L/N to the switch.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I'm not sure whats causing the issue but I'm getting weird behaviour, it may be overloading. The lights stopped working altogether after switching on the kitchen lights and then the outdoor lights (all in the same 4g switch). The 32amp tripped when turning the power back on, but stayed up once i tried the switch again.

I take your point about working tidy as it were, while I'm in 'seeing what works' mode I'm taking shortcuts, cables pinned in place, sheeths etc. Once I know I've got the solution there will be a 'completion' phase.

Back to the issue at hand...

Q: Does the mere fact its a 32amp circuit I've linked into have the type of impact I'm seeing, and if not then is it simply a question of re-wiring the JB to include my new L/N to the switch. Does it mean that I already have an issue on that circuit which I'm simply exaserbating with the additional wiring. I'm using 1.5mm cable for the L/N to the switch.

You really should not be connecting lights to a 32A circuit. Apart from not to regs and not safe, the 32A breaker is too big to protect 1.5, even 2,5mm cable. Also if you end up mixing your 32A L with a neutral from a 6A lighting circuit on the other half of the CU, you will be tripping the RCD.
I didn't realise you were pursuing using that 32A circuit. Please don't.
You need to use power from the RCD protected 6A MCB circuit, and only that circuit. Sorry, but that is absolutely essential.

 

[DPG]

I hate to sound negative but I think it's time to accept your are out of depth and need an electrician in for this work. There's no shame in knowing your limits

 

[kreatiff63]

You really should not be connecting lights to a 32A circuit. Apart from not to regs and not safe, the 32A breaker is too big to protect 1.5, even 2,5mm cable. Also if you end up mixing your 32A L with a neutral from a 6A lighting circuit on the other half of the CU, you will be tripping the RCD.
I didn't realise you were pursuing using that 32A circuit. Please don't.
You need to use power from the RCD protected 6A MCB circuit, and only that circuit. Sorry, but that is absolutely essential.

Yes we're thinking alike...

Need to seperate out the facts I think:

• The electrics tripped when I cut the cable I was taking to the switch from the cable that feeds the JB. The 6 & 16s were all off at the CU.
• There was strange behaviour when I turned on other lights in the same switch (not connected), which then didn't work at all.
• The spot light and switch which are fed from the JB turn on and off with the 6amp fuse in the CU switched on/off.
• The lights worked when I connected them up to the wiring config I'm using from GSH Electrics (teacher/practitioner), seemed brighter.

So, unless someone's got some tests I can do to narrow down what the actual issue may be, given all of the above I guess I need to find another source for my supply and also take the single spot off that 32 end loop.

Tests I imagine would be measuring the voltage or amps at each connection in the attic. There are enough cables up there, and we do have lighting in this corner of the bungalow.

I don't thinks its a question anymore of re-wiring that JB.

 

[kreatiff63]

I hate to sound negative but I think it's time to accept your are out of depth and need an electrician in for this work. There's no shame in knowing your limits

I take your point, and agree. Also, I know assumptions are dangerous, I work in Testing software. I thought that as this was feeding spot lights previously and now just the one, that this would be a good one to use. I should have checked it for 'live' after the RCBs were turned off.

But anyway, I take your point and I'm very close to solving this. I'm learning a lot in the process. I wear 'marigolds' .

 

[kreatiff63]

Yes we're thinking alike...

Need to seperate out the facts I think:

• The electrics tripped when I cut the cable I was taking to the switch from the cable that feeds the JB. The 6 & 16s were all off at the CU.
• There was strange behaviour when I turned on other lights in the same switch (not connected), which then didn't work at all.
• The spot light and switch which are fed from the JB turn on and off with the 6amp fuse in the CU switched on/off.
• The lights worked when I connected them up to the wiring config I'm using from GSH Electrics (teacher/practitioner), seemed brighter.

So, unless someone's got some tests I can do to narrow down what the actual issue may be, given all of the above I guess I need to find another source for my supply and also take the single spot off that 32 end loop.

Tests I imagine would be measuring the voltage or amps at each connection in the attic. There are enough cables up there, and we do have lighting in this corner of the bungalow.

I don't thinks its a question anymore of re-wiring that JB.

Here's the layout again of the bungalow.

As you can see the CU is very close to the 4G switch. It will be a more messy job, but once all the powers off in the CU I know I'm connecting to either 16 or 6, probably 6. I would double up in the top with the live wire, and then would I have to connect to the same neutral and earth bars 'number' as the existing cable in the RCB or just ensure I use the same for the new wires? I know that I would have to use the same bar that corresponds to the same section of RCBs.

Diagram below: The faded cream area in the middle represents the boradrd crawl way in the attic. It's spider man after that to get to the lights and down holes for the cables I've used so far. There are spots on that side of the house too, there's a pendant in the master bedroom but thats a long way from where I'm working. Closest are the spots, I guess if I were to go there looking for my L/N then there would have to be something feeding these spots. But thats all under boards... and difficult to get to. I'm liking the CU more now as an option. BUT it would be good to understand exactly what was going on with the JB.

 

[kreatiff63]

You really should not be connecting lights to a 32A circuit. Apart from not to regs and not safe, the 32A breaker is too big to protect 1.5, even 2,5mm cable. Also if you end up mixing your 32A L with a neutral from a 6A lighting circuit on the other half of the CU, you will be tripping the RCD.
I didn't realise you were pursuing using that 32A circuit. Please don't.
You need to use power from the RCD protected 6A MCB circuit, and only that circuit. Sorry, but that is absolutely essential.

I've got what looks like 2.5 and 1.5mm cables running around the edge of the attic. Would it be safe to assume before I cut into the lower one is lighting loop and the top one is for a mains loop? Bungalow was built in the eighties...




And then I have this set up, not my work, close by... the white round thing looks like a junction box. And the white cable goes off to what I think is the conservatory lights.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I've got what looks like 2.5 and 1.5mm cables running around the edge of the attic. Would it be safe to assume before I cut into the lower one is lighting loop and the top one is for a mains loop?

Don't cut into anything before understanding EXACTLY what it is. Preferably don't cut into anything full stop!
Please deal with this in an analytical manner, which you should be capable of if testing s/w professionally.

You need to understand what cable does what and goes where in your existing wiring, map out what needs to be done, and test the validity of your assumptions (eg using a meter) before actually connecting anything.
Don't just try things out to see if they work. Electrics should be done with test equipment and logic.

I'm leaving this, hoping you either get someone in to help/do it, or you spend a lot more time reading up, investigating, testing, using logic and gaining certainty about your existing wiring before trying to connect anything up.

 

[westward10]

I have been following this thread on and off and whilst the forum is happy to help with DIY questions this is getting well beyond what is acceptable and we must consider your safety being a non-electrical person. @Avo Mk8 has given much advice but now quite rightly has drawn a line under it, you need professional help.

 

[kreatiff63]

Don't cut into anything before understanding EXACTLY what it is. Preferably don't cut into anything full stop!
Please deal with this in an analytical manner, which you should be capable of if testing s/w professionally.

You need to understand what cable does what and goes where in your existing wiring, map out what needs to be done, and test the validity of your assumptions (eg using a meter) before actually connecting anything.
Don't just try things out to see if they work. Electrics should be done with test equipment and logic.

I'm leaving this, hoping you either get someone in to help/do it, or you spend a lot more time reading up, investigating, testing, using logic and gaining certainty about your existing wiring before trying to connect anything up.

thanks for your help, amazed you hung on so long actually Really appreciated it.

 

[kreatiff63]

If you inadvertently shorted neutral to earth that can trip the RCD, even with that circuit's MCB off,
That is 'normal behaviour'

It can't be a 32amp supply. The light over the sink goes off when I turn off the 6amp RCB (see pics below). So it must be a 6amp junction box. Which means that there is something else causing the intermittent behaviour I experienced when trying the kitchen lights. This can only be wiring related, either at the junction box or the light switch.

Picture #1 = 6 amp fuse in OFF position
Picture #1 = Light switch in ON position
Picture #3 = Single spot not ON

I'm going to test tomorrow at the junction box pictured below using my multireader, with the power on/off at this 6 amp fuse. I'll test against E/L N/L. I guess theres another test with the 32amp on/off too just to completely discount it.

If testing is positive for 6amp I'lll move on to the wiring at the junction box, then if still experiencing issues will rewire the 3 way lighting as to a different format AC Power showed me on DIY Forums.

If this doesn't solve it then either get the pro's in or go at the CU.

Seems like a logical approach... let me know if you think otherwise.

 

[westward10]

No more find an electrician.