Looking for some wisdom not a kicking

[tri cal elec]

thankyou mate I will report back

 

[Wilko]

Like RB and Westie Like.
I would just add - at the end of this I would replace mcb on that circuit. Only a few £ and the one in place might have coped a bit of a hiding. Good luck.

 

[ipf]

[QUOTE="tri cal elec, post: 1256655, member:

The job is a lights gone out with a big bang heard in a toilette. So me and my more knowledgeable! collegue attend the job.

What I found was a first.

Haveing flicked the breaker on it wasnt the lights that seemed to be the problem but only some sparks comeing out of a piece of conduit. There is a blanked of what I presume old light switch. After the mcb had been turned on after about 20 seconds you would start to here popping and crackling going on it the conduit, then after 40 seconds of this it would backfire sparks and a flash out of the bottom of it. Its been fine for ages at least 2 years.

Even in my first month as an apprentice I don't think I'd have been sitting back for a couple of minutes waiting for and watching the 'snap, crackle and pop' and resultant fireworks show.

 

[DPG]

Agree with ipf - this seems worrying. I would have thought an instant switch-off followed by some extensive dead testing would be in order.

 

[Andy78]

i disagree some members seem to enjoy trolling op's who they feel know less than them . In some cases it fair to suggest to get a electrian in etc ,but alot of the time it just to belittle people . I enjoy the forum but was a bit weary posting the first time as i didn't want to get into daft arguments and come out feeling i know less than i did before post as i think it should be the other way around .

You disagree that the OP acted dangerously and seemingly without regard for the safety of others, and that they appear to lack the knowledge and competence to work and fault find safely and within the law ?

 

[DPG]

<Like Andy78's post>

 

[ipf]

With a more knowledgeable colleague in attendance, too?

 

[mickfred]

You disagree that the OP acted dangerously and seemingly without regard for the safety of others, and that they appear to lack the knowledge and competence to work and fault find safely and within the law ?

I disagree that someone can't ask a question with out a snotty reply and that why the OP was on the defensive in the first post as am sure he has looked through post s before and seen that what's happened all the time . He never said that he sat looking at sparks for 20 minutes he said after 20 minutes cracks and pops happen and 40 seconds later the MCB tripped.he was asking a reasonable question

 

[DPG]

I still maintain it is not good to see sparks and then sit back watching to see what happens. What if the mcb hadn't eventually tripped? You are in the territory of damaged cables and fires.
I would say 'see sparks and hear bangs, switch off!'

 

[Andy78]

I disagree that someone can't ask a question with out a snotty reply and that why the OP was on the defensive in the first post as am sure he has looked through post s before and seen that what's happened all the time . He never said that he sat looking at sparks for 20 minutes he said after 20 minutes cracks and pops happen and 40 seconds later the MCB tripped.he was asking a reasonable question

I think you need to re-read the first post.
He said he arrived at a known fault that had tripped with a loud bang. His first actions were to energise the circuit and observe crackling and sparks coming from a metal part for up to 40 seconds. He does not say whether the breaker tripped or was turned off after that.

I stand by my comments that, given the supplied information, he acted dangerously and seemingly without the appropriate knowledge or responsibility.

 

[SparkyChick]

I agree entirely with @Andy78 . Based on the information supplied they shouldn't have switched it on and instead pursued a methodical inspect and test approach to identifying the problem.

 

[tri cal elec]

cheers to the guys who havent given me a beating its appreciated and its nice to see that there seems to be some decent people on here now who dont mind sticking up for those less knowledgeable.

To those doing the same old thing all I can show you is V fingers.

Well Ive learned alot about my collegues I dont actually think any of them are as clued up as they like to think they.

I know its dangerous to see all the sparks but I have to admit kind of exciting as well I enjoyed it anyway

Its interesting that not one of the others even suggested to do some dead testing. Im going to be bringing it up at work just to see what is said and who knows if I pay my cards right Ill be able to be put through my testing via them as this is clearly an example when it would have been the thing to do.

I am supposedly the least competant of a team of 4 sparkys but yes that is exactly what we did the guy I was sent out with said go and turn the mcb on so I did. after it tripped the first time he told me to go and turm it on again as he was trying to check where the problem was with his ears listening out for the snap crackle pop and bang. After turning it on about 4 times haveing tripped on each occasion he had tracked it down lol and told me to stand there and watch as he went and turned it on for the fith time.

today

I mentioned that due to the mcb taking so long to trip about a minute then perhaps there was a problem with the PFC and perhaps we should test that its ok. They all went nah I said are you sure taking on board what was said earlier in the thread and they still stuck tot here guns so I just left it as I dont wanna isolate myself from them to much, you know how it is.

tommorow Im going to ask why we didnt leave the mcb of and carry out some dead tests on the ciruit as the insulation resisitance reading should have indicated where are problem was in all honesty there either all really lazy or just dont know how to test. they all make out there the top of the tree as quite a few sparks tend to be like looking down on other trades so it will be interesting to see what there reply is.

what would a fully compentant electrician have done so I can put it to them obviously Im not the finished article and working amoungst these lot I dont think im gonna be learning anything so if I can pick anything up here its going to stand me in good stead.

its hard because i dont want to mug them of but at the end of the day if they aint doing it right someones got to say and I dont mind being that person een if it makes me unpopular. its no good burrying me head in the sand.

Ill report but any answers to my questions that i propose to them all tommorow from what ive picked up on here already or if theres anyother posts that follow.

thanks again and I understand that some take a tough stance but as I say Im the least experienced and supposedly least knowledgable on the team its just all the advice on what to do or should have been done said on here hasnt been done out on the job in any way

 

[tri cal elec]

unfortunatley I can't see Mr Burn's attachment that he put up for me. much appreciated though mate, thanks for trying to be helpfull

 

[DPG]

Your last 2 posts have been much more constructive OP. It seems the people who should be advising you are leading you astray.
Keep asking questions - it's the way to learn.
Daz.

 

[tri cal elec]

what would you hae done mate.

 

[Des 56]

Its obvious you are aware of your shortcomings and are prepared to say so in a open forum,that surly is a big plus for your own development

Its a shame that you seem to be saddled with electricians who don't appear to fit the description of that title

The gang you are working with may need to lay off the Frosties,too much snap crackle and pop can make their brains inept and cause them to forget basic rules

 

[ipf]

I'm with you there DPG but take exception to the 'V fingers' from the OP.

I don't half worry for our trade if such methods are being used for fault finding by so called experienced tradesmen.

From the information given, it is just downright dangerous practice and could, for many employees, result in instant dismissal.

 

[Des 56]

A big like off me for that post ipf

 

[SparkyChick]

A big like off me for that post ipf

And me

 

[DPG]

And me.

 

[tri cal elec]

fair play mate as I say I can see your point of view and i dont disagree with it. But thats in an ideal world and the world I live in isnt always running ideally. Ive been a memeber here before and coped a load of stick for asking questions with some even suggesting I was trolling. I acutually wasnt but there you go it is what it is. As I say this place seems to have become a bit more forgiving seeing as ive been able to nip in and post this and come away with something thats gonna help me out.

Im not a complete novice, I can wire up a socket I can route the cable to get it there I can connect it to the board I know that its good practice to load your breakers in decending order from the rcd ive been told its wise to split things on a board say you know upstairs ring on one rcd and the downstairs on the other same with lights ive been shown that to see if a board is going to give u problems you test it with a rcd before taking on the job. I can add a circuit. I could split a ring if I was told where the middle was. I can wire up outside lights to a phot cell sensor. I can fix a break in a steel armoured cable. Its just when I come across something I havent encountered I need to find out whats going on obviously I form my own idea but I just needed to try and clear it up and unfortunantly thats not always possible with who I know so thats why I come on here trolling as you out it when in actual fact im trying to up my level of competance not so I can go round putting ----s down but so I can be someone to learn of in the future or takle any job with gusto knowing im a dab hand at it