Main fuse query

[Garymcdee]

Hi I’m planning on getting my house re-wired soon, the installation at the minute is an ancient old fuse board with all sorts going on in there! My main fuse is rated at 60 amp and my question is should I get the dno in to upgrade if needed to 80 or 100 amp! Am I best doing this before or after re-wire?
Will 60 amp be ok staying put?
It’s a 3 bed semi.
Thanks for help

 

[Des 56]

Can you state the reasons why future unknown and possible extra loading is going to require a sometimes expensive ( and also not necessarily guaranteed) upgrade by the supplier may be needed?

Unless you can,I would be tempted to find something else to spend my money on rather than taking a guess at predicting future loading requirements just because of a rewiring job

 

[Megawatt]

Hi I’m planning on getting my house re-wired soon, the installation at the minute is an ancient old fuse board with all sorts going on in there! My main fuse is rated at 60 amp and my question is should I get the dno in to upgrade if needed to 80 or 100 amp! Am I best doing this before or after re-wire?
Will 60 amp be ok staying put?
It’s a 3 bed semi.
Thanks for help

I’m from the USA but I’m sure you will be told this but if it was me I would go to 100 amp just do it all at the same time

 

[Bobster]

I’m from the USA but I’m sure you will be told this but if it was me I would go to 100 amp just do it all at the same time

It may not just be the cost of simply upgrading the fuse.

If the network (DNO) cable, or area loading is not capable of a 100A supply, the cost to upgrade could be hundreds, more likely thousands.

For the OP, the house has been fine up to now with a 60A service fuse. Are you planning on installing more larger loads?

 

[davesparks]

I’m from the USA but I’m sure you will be told this but if it was me I would go to 100 amp just do it all at the same time

Why would you bother when the average house will rarely see a load above 20

 

[davesparks]

Hi I’m planning on getting my house re-wired soon, the installation at the minute is an ancient old fuse board with all sorts going on in there! My main fuse is rated at 60 amp and my question is should I get the dno in to upgrade if needed to 80 or 100 amp! Am I best doing this before or after re-wire?
Will 60 amp be ok staying put?
It’s a 3 bed semi.
Thanks for help

Unless the rewire includes adding more load then it shouldn't be necessary. If it's a straightforward rewire then the current demand isn't going to change much.

 

[telectrix]

leaveit at 60A. if it ever blows, then get DNO to replace ( FOC ).

 

[Deleted account]

Do you have gas hob and oven or electric?

Do you have electric shower or mixer taps?

Do you have electric rads or gas central heating?

 

[Garymcdee]

No big loads planned for future, I just thought that having a 60 amp fuse was old skool and a change was in need! If I can stick with 60 that’s great.
Cheers guys

 

[Megawatt]

Why would you bother when the average house will rarely see a load above 20

Do it right the first time and be done with it

 

[Andy78]

Do it right the first time and be done with it

It is presently done correctly.

Choosing to upgrade to a 100A supply at cost when a 60A supply has proven to be adequate would make as much sense as choosing to put a higher performing engine in a vehicle that has a speed restrictor fitted.

 

[Megawatt]

It is presently done correctly.

Choosing to upgrade to a 100A supply at cost when a 60A supply has proven to be adequate would make as much sense as choosing to put a higher performing engine in a vehicle that has a speed restrictor fitted.

Every house in America has a 100amp service and mostly 200 amp

 

[Megawatt]

Do you have gas hob and oven or electric?

Do you have electric shower or mixer taps?

Do you have electric rads or gas central heating?

We have electric hot water heaters at 4800 watts heat is 10000 watts stoves are 4000 watts dryer are 6000 watts plus all the other loads. I get what your saying but in the USA other than trailors 100 amp service no exceptions

 

[Deleted account]

Thanks megawatt.

I think Britain needs to start thinking along those lines also if we are going to get rid of gas and role out EV in the quantities that are being proposed.

My question was initially directed to garymcdee.

 

[Andy78]

Every house in America has a 100amp service and mostly 200 amp

Common sizes over here are 60, 80, and 100A for single phase domestic and small properties. 80A is commonly the choice the for new build houses, but the national grid network uses a smaller amount when sizing their infrastructure.
As Davesparks says most houses currently won't see anywhere near 60A use in any one peak.

 

[davesparks]

Do it right the first time and be done with it

But it's already right, what you're suggesting is just an unnecessary waste of time, money and resources.

 

[Megawatt]

But it's already right, what you're suggesting is just an unnecessary waste of time, money and resources.

It’s called planning for the future. I can’t count how many people called me because they want to add swimming pools, out buildings etc. you get the point

 

[Silly Sausage]

Thanks megawatt.

I think Britain needs to start thinking along those lines also if we are going to get rid of gas and role out EV in the quantities that are being proposed.

We need to be thinking of continual energy reduction (electric & gas).

 

[Bobster]

It’s called planning for the future. I can’t count how many people called me because they want to add swimming pools, out buildings etc. you get the point

It's worth noting that in the UK generally speaking, houses don't come with enough land for pools, outbuildings etc...

They are also generally smaller, better insulated. No real need for AC.

Dryers and washing machines are usually <2kW so they can be plugged into a general outlet. Unlike your dedicated outlets for such devices.

We also rely a lot more on diversity. The network does not expect every high energy item in a household to be on all at the same time, or for a short period if they are. (Think cyclic heating on a stove element, dryer element etc...)

 

[GeorgeCooke]

We have electric hot water heaters at 4800 watts heat is 10000 watts stoves are 4000 watts dryer are 6000 watts plus all the other loads. I get what your saying but in the USA other than trailors 100 amp service no exceptions

You also have half mains voltage so twice the current is required fit any given load.

 

[DPG]

You also have half mains voltage so twice the current is required fit any given load.

They generally have 240v as well, using a split supply. Higher current appliances use the 240V.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

They generally have 240v as well, using a split supply. Higher current appliances use the 240V.

I could answer that with we have 3 phase so higher current devices use 415v, but of course it is not done domestically in the UK though it is in mainland Europe.

 

[Risteard]

I could answer that with we have 3 phase so higher current devices use 415v, but of course it is not done domestically in the UK though it is in mainland Europe.

There's nominally 400V between phases.

 

[DPG]

I could answer that with we have 3 phase so higher current devices use 415v, but of course it is not done domestically in the UK though it is in mainland Europe.

Yes, the thread here is regarding normal domestic supplies.

 

[Megawatt]

It's worth noting that in the UK generally speaking, houses don't come with enough land for pools, outbuildings etc...

They are also generally smaller, better insulated. No real need for AC.

Dryers and washing machines are usually <2kW so they can be plugged into a general outlet. Unlike your dedicated outlets for such devices.

We also rely a lot more on diversity. The network does not expect every high energy item in a household to be on all at the same time, or for a short period if they are. (Think cyclic heating on a stove element, dryer element etc...)

It's worth noting that in the UK generally speaking, houses don't come with enough land for pools, outbuildings etc...

They are also generally smaller, better insulated. No real need for AC.

Dryers and washing machines are usually <2kW so they can be plugged into a general outlet. Unlike your dedicated outlets for such devices.

We also rely a lot more on diversity. The network does not expect every high energy item in a household to be on all at the same time, or for a short period if they are. (Think cyclic heating on a stove element, dryer element etc...)

Rob in the USA the NEC is minimum requirements and I agree that everything doesn’t come on together at one time but we as Electricians have to figure worst case scenario and wiring it accordingly.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

There's nominally 400V between phases.

The so called nominal is no where near what is encountered in practice except in NI which has always been 230/400.

 

[7029 dave]

60amp is the size not blown, leave alone. If you are concerned about the load, clamp it an see how many amps you are pulling on full load.

 

[Megawatt]

They generally have 240v as well, using a split supply. Higher current appliances use the 240V.

in the USA we have single phase on houses 240/120

There's nominally 400V between

 

[Garymcdee]

Do you have gas hob and oven or electric?

Do you have electric shower or mixer taps?

Do you have electric rads or gas central heating?

Gas hob/oven, mixer taps, gas central heating

 

[Megawatt]

60amp is the size not blown, leave alone. If you are concerned about the load, clamp it an see how many amps you are pulling on full load.

Dave I have put a amp meter on my house and just when the heat which has 10000 watts of power kicks on I’m reading 74 amps on the start up then levels off to 41 amps, that’s not counting if your drying clothes or cooking supper or washing dishes which all has heating elements

 

[DPG]

No wonder the planet's resources are dwindling.

 

[Megawatt]

60amp is the size not blown, leave alone. If you are concerned about the load, clamp it an see how many amps you are pulling on full load.

If I had a 60amp fuse that would start over heating and eventually blow. Since from what I understand y’all have higher voltage so as you know the higher the voltage the lower the current

 

[mhar]

New (WPD) domestic supplies are likely to be 3 phase their employees were informed last year

 

[Silly Sausage]

New (WPD) domestic supplies are likely to be 3 phase their employees were informed last year

I wonder how many fried customers WPD are planning for?
I'd love a 3P supply, I could run my monster compressor then.

 

[davesparks]

It’s called planning for the future. I can’t count how many people called me because they want to add swimming pools, out buildings etc. you get the point

Swimming pools don't need much power, unless someone was mad enough to have it heated electrically in which case a 3 phase supply is likely to be needed.

In the USA I am sure a higher capacity service is necessary, in the UK it rarely is for domestic use.
The general trend is towards reducing energy consumption so planning for the future shouldn't need a bigger supply.

I partially get the point, but at what point does planning for the future become a futile exercise?
A cost/benefit analysis is likely to show that the cost of the upgrade is high and the benefit zero.

 

[davesparks]

Rob in the USA the NEC is minimum requirements and I agree that everything doesn’t come on together at one time but we as Electricians have to figure worst case scenario and wiring it accordingly.

We don't work to the worst case scenario, we generally use diversity calculations which have been long established and proven to work. We still end up with supplies oversized for the actual demand.

It's not just everything not coming on at the same time, it's things like the cycling of the thermostats in heating loads which reduces the actual demand.

 

[davesparks]

We have electric hot water heaters at 4800 watts heat is 10000 watts stoves are 4000 watts dryer are 6000 watts plus all the other loads. I get what your saying but in the USA other than trailors 100 amp service no exceptions

Hot water and heating are normally gas or oil fired. If electric hot water is usually 3kW and heating is likely to be on an off peak supply
Cookers up to around 15kW work fine on a 32A supply due to diversity, and rarely draw even that.
And tumble driers are normally 2kW or less and usually only used when it's raining and not possible to air dry clothes outside.

 

[DPG]

If my house was pulling 70 Amps plus, then I'd be bankrupt from the bills!

 

[telectrix]

south yorks.... looks like a job for Glenn(Super)Sparks.

 

[Deleted account]

I’ve only done 3 pools but they where electric. One on a 5 kw heater all designed by pool people.

The other 2 on air source heat pumps.

Electric is the way forward. We need to prepare fro it now.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Electric is the way forward. We need to prepare fro it now.

Why do you think that? Electricity is horrendously expensive compared to other forms of energy. Three times as expensive as gas per KWh.

 

[Megawatt]

Swimming pools don't need much power, unless someone was mad enough to have it heated electrically in which case a 3 phase supply is likely to be needed.

In the USA I am sure a higher capacity service is necessary, in the UK it rarely is for domestic use.
The general trend is towards reducing energy consumption so planning for the future shouldn't need a bigger supply.

I partially get the point, but at what point does planning for the future become a futile exercise?
A cost/benefit analysis is likely to show that the cost of the upgrade is high and the benefit zero.

Dave from what I understand she’s need a rewrite and I don’t know prices for materials but all your doing is going to 100 amps. I wouldn’t think 40 amps more and having some spares would be that much more expensive

 

[Deleted account]

Why do you think that? Electricity is horrendously expensive compared to other forms of energy. Three times as expensive as gas per KWh.

Because the British government are preparing now to stop, installing gas in new builds. Can’t remember the date, buts it’s recently been put back. Also as I said earlier EV is a big issue at the moment.

 

[Silly Sausage]

If my house was pulling 70 Amps plus, then I'd be bankrupt from the bills!

I'd be bankrupted on 7 Amps!
Worked it out once, over about 12 hours (electric usage average) a day, we use about 500mA.Why on Earth would I want a 100A 3P supply?

 

[Andy78]

Dave from what I understand she’s need a rewrite and I don’t know prices for materials but all your doing is going to 100 amps. I wouldn’t think 40 amps more and having some spares would be that much more expensive

As stated by Rob in post #4, if the main incoming cable was not capable of merely upgrading the fuse, then the cable itself would have to be upgraded. This would likely cost many thousands of pounds to provide a service that is not needed.
We are talking about the fuse that protects the whole household that is owned and managed by the network operator, not just a case of adding spare ways in the fuse board to accommodate future circuits.

 

[Megawatt]

Why do you think that? Electricity is horrendously expensive compared to other forms of energy. Three times as expensive as gas per KWh.

In the USA gas and oil is more expensive than power

 

[Megawatt]

I'd be bankrupted on 7 Amps!
Worked it out once, over about 12 hours (electric usage average) a day, we use about 500mA.Why on Earth would I want a 100A 3P supply?

Archy just because you have a 100 amp service don’t mean your power is going to increase

 

[Megawatt]

Archy just because you have a 100 amp service don’t mean your power is going to increase

We don’t have 3 phase on houses

 

[Megawatt]

As stated by Rob in post #4, if the main incoming cable was not capable of merely upgrading the fuse, then the cable itself would have to be upgraded. This would likely cost many thousands of pounds to provide a service that is not needed.
We are talking about the fuse that protects the whole household that is owned and managed by the network operator, not just a case of adding spare ways in the fuse board to accommodate future circuits.

Rob I understand and don’t want to upset people. Remember all countries have their own rules to go by and from what I’ve seen and been through I encourage people to increase the amperage which might cost maybe a couple of hundred dollars counting the wire

 

[Deleted account]

In the USA gas and oil is more expensive than power

Really. That’s interesting. I wander why!