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Discuss New fire alarm qualification great for sparks in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Diver233
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    Diver233 Fire alarms

    Location:
    UK
    what’s everyone’s thoughts.

    Post Grenfell all fire alarm installers/ maintainers will most likely have to prove competency of fire alarm system. So potentially just being a qualified spark won’t give you the correct certification.
    So a new qualification is coming in, it will be similar to the 18th edition exam but based on BS5839-1:2017.
    It has been developed so that as a spark you have the base skills for cables etc, but just need to prove you can select and install the correct equipment in the correct place. So basically knowing BS5839-1.
    This will be a full level 3 qualification recognised by Ofqual.
     
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  2. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Respected Member

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    who installs hard wired fire alarms these days though? 2 weeks of 2 hairy arsed installers running 200m of FP200, disrupting business and decor, as opposed to 1 guy, 1 day installing wireless detection. total no brainer.
     
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  3. BruceBanner
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    BruceBanner Regular EF Member

    Location:
    cornwall
    Evening , got something going on down here. Complex of holiday lets we do work for have had safety assessment by fire brigade, voluntary, they called them in to make sure they were compliant. Amongst masses of other items was an insistence on hard wirec, linked alarms, on dedicated circuit. Also emergency lighting to be fitted. Disagreements were had, a prohibition order on this year's lets was placed, (now under review). This has now gone legal while they argue about what to do "going forward!"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. essex
    Online

    essex Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Wiltshire
    I think it is a great idea. Too many people doing stuff without being qualifies or competent.

    Emergency lighting should be next.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Diver233
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    Diver233 Fire alarms

    Location:
    UK
    Telectrix, Post Grenfell won’t matter if you are doing radio or hard wired you will still need to prove competence of BS5839-1 . So the question still stands, or put it another way quoting clause 3.12 how do you prove competence of installing that system.

    I understand what you are saying and if all radio was totally reliable over a ten to fifteen year period I would agree, but in my opinion after installing and inspecting many £m worth of radio jobs we are not at that point yet. If someone brings out a cost effective 10 year battery life reliable that does not need hard wired boosters all over the place I’d agree entirely.
     
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  6. Diver233
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    Diver233 Fire alarms

    Location:
    UK
    This is a classic one, the holiday let’s would need to prove the system beyond doubt will be suitable and sufficient, don’t get me wrong the FRS are often incorrect but for some it’s cheaper to just do what they want rather than going legal with it.
    One of the big hotel chains decided to change bedroom smoke detectors to heats, FRS didn’t like it so took them court, the hotel company fought it and many hundreds of thousands of pounds later and ruling by the governments chief fire adviser at the time Sir Ken Knight the hotel company were found not in breach of the RRO.
    But most companies won’t risk doing that and just do what they are asked by FRS.
     
  7. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Staff Member Moderator

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    What has any of this to do with Grenfell?
    The fire spread there was a structural issue not a fire alarm problem.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. Diver233
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    Diver233 Fire alarms

    Location:
    UK
    Westward do you live in a cave with no Tv or news ?.

    Post Grenfell 11 working groups have been set up due to report back to government June this year.
    Whilst a lot of it will mainly focus on HRRB, WG2 Installers (the one I’m on) is concentrating on competency of installers and maintainers, and not just fire engineers. Electricians, plumbers, joiners, roofers, fire engineers etc.
    Government required the WG to report back with credible options of how people can prove competency in their field of work.
    The Hackett report recommended 53 changes, the Government has said it will act on all 53.

    http://www.frmjournal.com/news/news_detail.cic-welcomes-second-hackitt-competence-report.html

    Approved document B is being rewritten also .
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Staff Member Moderator

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Never watch the news or buy newspapers:D
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    That just goes to show how stupid these decision makers are - people will just turn the circuit off.

    And who exactly is going to be "policing this" - because Part P "policing has been such a success ............. not.
     
  11. Diver233
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    Diver233 Fire alarms

    Location:
    UK
    Hackitt recommended the creation of a Joint Competent Authority (JCA), which will merge the LABC (Building Control) with the local fire authority and the Health and Safety Executive. This means more visits on building sites and more scrutiny on how things are being built.
     
  12. darkwood
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    darkwood Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    This is OTT - domestically it is so basic I don't see an issue, over and above domestic then you are often required to liaise with the fire services and building control so other than routing and installing the wiring which is covered even in the BS7671 then I see this as just another money cash cow scheme targeting our trade.

    Cowboy installers will still be cowboy installers and won't take the course.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Staff Member Moderator

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    If it is similar to the 18th Ed course as mentioned in #1 then it will be a pointless exercise, you need a course which includes practical and class activities and a recognised piece of paper at the end. Not some attendance certificate. It is understood generally that doing electrical installation you require BS7671 but installing safety systems there seems to be a disregard to having the required Standards hence why most if not all small scale installations are not compliant.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Charlie_
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    Charlie_ Electrician's Arms

    Am I right in thinking that a defective refrigerator had something to do with it starting?
    I used to be a domestic/commercial appliance technician.. I had many accreditations, was a member of dasa and approved agent by leading brands..
    In that time I discovered many horrendous bodge up jobs, stats linked out,etc..
    As well of looking at ways of preventing the spread of fires, we need to look at ways of preventing them starting in the first place..
    We can’t just put everything in non ferrous enclosures
     
  15. essex
    Online

    essex Forum Mentor

    Location:
    Wiltshire
    There is major reform on BS5839 on the way off the back of Grendfell.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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