New here, looking for advice on an invoice, am I being ripped off??

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choccywoccy

I apologise if this is posted in the wrong place, I hope someone can help me please to decide whats fair..

I asked for a quote from a local electrician on a rental property I have. He gave my husband a verbal quote "off the top of his head" but did not give a written quote. He was looking at an electrical safety certificate which we paid £85 for plus 20% VAT and he disconnected a dangerous wire the previous tenant had put in (outside lights wired to the mains) it took seconds to do and he said at the time it was no charge as it was lethal it couldn't wait. I paid his invoice totalling £102.01 which detailed the disconnected wiring as £0.01cost and the certificate. He then arranged to come back to do a few other "bits" as I shall explain - but I am being charged a further £510.00! I have asked for it to be itemised and the following is what I was charged for. Is this fair?
1. £25 broken socket on landing
2.£35 cables installed in garden I have disconnected today for safety (surely I paid £0.01 for this already??!!)
3. £20 some (3) light fittings missing shields
4. £30 Its a TT Installation and the electrode needs replacing ?
5. £25 Earth to the water not connected
6. £35 earthing to gas not within 600mm
7 £20 2 gang switch in bedroom only needs to be 1 gang (this was NOT DONE!)
8 - blank
9. £135 mains smoke detection (THIS WAS NOT DONE!)
10.£65 bathroom light not IP rated - (new one was fitted)
11.£30 Pale (??) Available (cannot read writing well here)
12.£45 No supplementary earth bonding
13. £25 TV socket in lounge broken
14.£20 socket plug top missing for gas ignition

Now I have disputed the two things not done, he has admitted that he was wrong to include the smoke detectors so agreed to deduct the £135 - although I have a backdated text message from him that actually quoted £125!!) however disputes the rest and says that that the two gang light switch was replaced - said he did it himself! But it remains a two gang flipin socket to this day!
laughing-smiley-014.gif
He says he was there on site on 26th july and it was himself with two workmen..says my husband let them in and they were there 4 hours! well I know I was there myself I have a text message from him the day before arranging to meet me at 8.30am the next day, (my husband was in N Yorks that day) and I asked the two lads to drop keys off with my neighbour which they did 2 hrs later! so as he is clearly lying about things I want to know what else he is trying to rip me off for here.. but as I don't understand my quote..I don't know what some of the things on it mean as he didn't explain them and need advice. is what he is asking for the rest a fair price? any one can help me decide a fair payment for this work???? I have no objection to paying a fair price, I simply don't trust this guy now.. anyone Please?
 
i'd say about £100 -£140 over priced .
 
Well, deduct the £135 for the smoke alarm not done and you are a down quite a bit.

How long was he with you for?

Shame he didn't give you any indication of costs.
 
he sent two lads to do the works and they were there 2 hours. He is says they were there 4 hours but they dropped keys with my neighbour at 11am so I know this not to be the case. He has agreed to drop the £135 as he "remembers now" that I didn't want the smoke alarms in ... but I still reckon the other things are over priced massively .. I know he didn't fit a new 1 gang light switch.. so that's another deduction... what about the replacement sockets? and the 3 light skirts - they cost 58p in B&Q .. I cant see how he is able to justify charging me £20 even if he did "fit" them on himself!
 
It's always difficult to comment on jobs/works one has not seen, though charging a customer for work they did not order and was not done suggests something less than good practice. Based on the info you have given, I'm inclined to agree with Tel that the work does appear overpriced. I'd certainly want to know what Item 11 is, especially if I was being charged £30. As for the work done, it all depends upon what you actually asked him to do e.g. go in an fix any obvious safety issues OR can you please let me know what needs to be done to ensure my tenant is safe and give me a detailed breakdown and quote for the work are two entirely different things, Oh and two sparks @2 hours each (if that's what they worked) is 4 hours and may include chargeable travel time.
 
<<< he sent two lads to do the works and they were there 2 hours. He is says they were there 4 hours >>>

Could he mean 2 x men were there for 2 x hours making it 4 man hours??
 
choccywoccy said:
I apologise if this is posted in the wrong place, I hope someone can help me please to decide whats fair..

I asked for a quote from a local electrician on a rental property I have. He gave my husband a verbal quote "off the top of his head" but did not give a written quote. He was looking at an electrical safety certificate which we paid £85 for plus 20% VAT and he disconnected a dangerous wire the previous tenant had put in (outside lights wired to the mains) it took seconds to do and he said at the time it was no charge as it was lethal it couldn't wait. I paid his invoice totalling £102.01 which detailed the disconnected wiring as £0.01cost and the certificate. He then arranged to come back to do a few other "bits" as I shall explain - but I am being charged a further £510.00! I have asked for it to be itemised and the following is what I was charged for. Is this fair?
1. £25 broken socket on landing..................... £15
2.£35 cables installed in garden I have disconnected today for safety (surely I paid £0.01 for this already??!!).......NIL
3. £20 some (3) light fittings missing shields.......... £20
4. £30 Its a TT Installation and the electrode needs replacing ? can't price without seeing
5. £25 Earth to the water not connected.... £25
6. £35 earthing to gas not within 600mm ........ can be left as it's not absolute 600mm
7 £20 2 gang switch in bedroom only needs to be 1 gang (this was NOT DONE!)....... NIL
8 - blank
9. £135 mains smoke detection (THIS WAS NOT DONE!)
10.£65 bathroom light not IP rated - (new one was fitted)............ ABOUT RIGHT
11.£30 Pale (??) Available (cannot read writing well here) ?????
12.£45 No supplementary earth bonding ........... MIGHT NOT BE NEEDED IF OTHER CONDITIONS APPLY.
13. £25 TV socket in lounge broken..... £15
14.£20 socket plug top missing for gas ignition............. freebie

Now I have disputed the two things not done, he has admitted that he was wrong to include the smoke detectors so agreed to deduct the £135 - although I have a backdated text message from him that actually quoted £125!!) however disputes the rest and says that that the two gang light switch was replaced - said he did it himself! But it remains a two gang flipin socket to this day!
laughing-smiley-014.gif
He says he was there on site on 26th july and it was himself with two workmen..says my husband let them in and they were there 4 hours! well I know I was there myself I have a text message from him the day before arranging to meet me at 8.30am the next day, (my husband was in N Yorks that day) and I asked the two lads to drop keys off with my neighbour which they did 2 hrs later! so as he is clearly lying about things I want to know what else he is trying to rip me off for here.. but as I don't understand my quote..I don't know what some of the things on it mean as he didn't explain them and need advice. is what he is asking for the rest a fair price? any one can help me decide a fair payment for this work???? I have no objection to paying a fair price, I simply don't trust this guy now.. anyone Please?
Click to expand...



I get that to £140, plus the unknown, whatever it was, and earth electrode cost. to fit a decent coupled rod properly could be anywhere from £40 to £120. the 3ft coat hanger he's probably quoted for is about as much use as a hairbrush to Harry Hill.
 
Definitely overpriced. £20 to fit a plug top? Come off it. £25 to change a socket outlet? Come off it.

The job should be priced Man hours @£x per hour, materials, traveling and VAT.

So I would say, 2 men @ £30 an hour = £120.

Materials £50 (generous estimate).

Traveling 40p per mile, local electrician say 10 miles each way, round it up call it £10

That's £180 + VAT (£36).

Total bill = £216.

:bigear:
 
I went to my garage the other day for a mot they charged me 200 quid for a couple of jobs.

Jobs that sound easy and I could have got the parts for less.

However I paid it because I'm not qualified to do such jobs.
 
choccywoccy said:
I apologise if this is posted in the wrong place, I hope someone can help me please to decide whats fair..

I asked for a quote from a local electrician on a rental property I have. He gave my husband a verbal quote "off the top of his head" but did not give a written quote. He was looking at an electrical safety certificate which we paid £85 for plus 20% VAT and he disconnected a dangerous wire the previous tenant had put in (outside lights wired to the mains) it took seconds to do and he said at the time it was no charge as it was lethal it couldn't wait. I paid his invoice totalling £102.01 which detailed the disconnected wiring as £0.01cost and the certificate. He then arranged to come back to do a few other "bits" as I shall explain - but I am being charged a further £510.00! I have asked for it to be itemised and the following is what I was charged for. Is this fair?
1. £25 broken socket on landing
2.£35 cables installed in garden I have disconnected today for safety (surely I paid £0.01 for this already??!!)
3. £20 some (3) light fittings missing shields
4. £30 Its a TT Installation and the electrode needs replacing ?
5. £25 Earth to the water not connected
6. £35 earthing to gas not within 600mm
7 £20 2 gang switch in bedroom only needs to be 1 gang (this was NOT DONE!)
8 - blank
9. £135 mains smoke detection (THIS WAS NOT DONE!)
10.£65 bathroom light not IP rated - (new one was fitted)
11.£30 Pale (??) Available (cannot read writing well here)
12.£45 No supplementary earth bonding
13. £25 TV socket in lounge broken
14.£20 socket plug top missing for gas ignition

Now I have disputed the two things not done, he has admitted that he was wrong to include the smoke detectors so agreed to deduct the £135 - although I have a backdated text message from him that actually quoted £125!!) however disputes the rest and says that that the two gang light switch was replaced - said he did it himself! But it remains a two gang flipin socket to this day!
laughing-smiley-014.gif
He says he was there on site on 26th july and it was himself with two workmen..says my husband let them in and they were there 4 hours! well I know I was there myself I have a text message from him the day before arranging to meet me at 8.30am the next day, (my husband was in N Yorks that day) and I asked the two lads to drop keys off with my neighbour which they did 2 hrs later! so as he is clearly lying about things I want to know what else he is trying to rip me off for here.. but as I don't understand my quote..I don't know what some of the things on it mean as he didn't explain them and need advice. is what he is asking for the rest a fair price? any one can help me decide a fair payment for this work???? I have no objection to paying a fair price, I simply don't trust this guy now.. anyone Please?
Click to expand...
rite then:

1) about rite in some areas

2) he agreed to do this for the original cost....he should`v gained permission before carrying out any remedial work

3) again...he has just been diving in

4) was a Ze carried out?...if you dont know what a Ze is...then just ask him if he carried out a Ze test...he will/should know what this is....and ask to see the value he recorded...a Max. of 200 ohms is acceptable ...although i would want to see it much, much lower

5) as long as the bonding cable & clamp was in place...and fit for continued service...then its a tenner

6) this is ideally (within 600mm)...not cast in stone....he dont know the regs this fella

7) is the switch accessory still good for continued service (barriers & enclosures + operation)?...if so then he has no business saying it needs changing..

8) ???????

9) if it wasn`t done...then you dont pay...come on..you know the score..surely?

10) if you specified a particular fitting...then he has an obligation to that

11) ??????

12) what board is it?...are there RCDs present and functioning correctly?

13) about rite

14) is it wired into a fused spur?..if its on a plugtop with no cover then this needs sorting...but its about a tenner...

hope this is of some use..
Glenn.
 
I see both sides of the coin.

The op has been mislead.

However they also see our job as just changing a socket few wires etc.

The rubbish I hear at work everyday.

P.s I didn't agree to the 2 dust caps at 3.50 each -_- haha
 
Glenn, your 'about rites' surely are if you are called out to do that one specific thing only? E.G. can you come around and change a broken socket? If you then multiply that pricing structure to every point in a house where multiple things need doing then you end up with stupidly high prices, as this lady has done here, being charged twice what she should have.
 
wahey!!!!! glenn in glorious technicolor. you lost your colouring book?
 
VoltzElectrical said:
Glenn, your 'about rites' surely are if you are called out to do that one specific thing only? E.G. can you come around and change a broken socket? If you then multiply that pricing structure to every point in a house where multiple things need doing then you end up with stupidly high prices, as this lady has done here, being charged twice what she should have.
Click to expand...
except it aint is it..

were talking about the odd broken accessory....not a house full...
 
methinks OP should get a second opinion. as glenn said, what's the Ze? if the donkey has fitted a coathanger for £30 odd, then it's probably like burt reynolds' hair piece, way over the top.
 
think glen nis being cagey coz' he charges £180/hour. should have been a solicitor. :icon_bs:
 
Choccy you say a rented property and that is the bullk of my work so I can give you the other side of the coin I quoted a cost for a new CU and extractor fan and said I would take off money on the extractor if I got both then got told CU not going to happen but do the fan at the price quoted. So I got held to my quote on the discounted fan because I never explained this in writing . So fine I complied but 6 months later was asked for another quote and this time I clarified that it was only for the work quoted for and anything else outside the scope would be chargeable or quoted for funny thing is I never got the job.

So this is a lesson for both parties for me to clarify what I am quoting for and for the landlord to get all quotes in writing as for paying too much well you are on rocky ground here because if you agree to the quote then you have no complaints Yes someone could say you were ripped off mate I could have done it for £100 cheaper mmmmm things like this is what i call a spoiler and never understand why Joe public accepts that they have paid Curry's £100 more for a big TV when they could have bought it on the internet yet feel they have been ripped off by a tradesman.

I will leave you with this a landlord baulked at me for a cost to replace a extract fan and then asked me what model i was using and then got a mate to do it only for the fan to have a fault 3 months later and then ask me if i would have a quick look at it then told me to forget it when I said it would be chargeable. Another landlord i put a fan in for had a similar problem picked up the phone and said sort it please as you quoted a year parts and labour warranty
 
oldtimer said:
Choccy you say a rented property and that is the bullk of my work so I can give you the other side of the coin I quoted a cost for a new CU and extractor fan and said I would take off money on the extractor if I got both then got told CU not going to happen but do the fan at the price quoted. So I got held to my quote on the discounted fan because I never explained this in writing . So fine I complied but 6 months later was asked for another quote and this time I clarified that it was only for the work quoted for and anything else outside the scope would be chargeable or quoted for funny thing is I never got the job.

So this is a lesson for both parties for me to clarify what I am quoting for and for the landlord to get all quotes in writing as for paying too much well you are on rocky ground here because if you agree to the quote then you have no complaints Yes someone could say you were ripped off mate I could have done it for £100 cheaper mmmmm things like this is what i call a spoiler and never understand why Joe public accepts that they have paid Curry's £100 more for a big TV when they could have bought it on the internet yet feel they have been ripped off by a tradesman.

I will leave you with this a landlord baulked at me for a cost to replace a extract fan and then asked me what model i was using and then got a mate to do it only for the fan to have a fault 3 months later and then ask me if i would have a quick look at it then told me to forget it when I said it would be chargeable. Another landlord i put a fan in for had a similar problem picked up the phone and said sort it please as you quoted a year parts and labour warranty
Click to expand...

with the greatest respect, I'm having difficulty following the logic behind your link between your interesting anecdotes as an electrician working in the rental field and the concerns of the OP over her being charged outrageous rates by a forgetful electrician who operates a questionable business model?

Can you expand on this my good man?

Regards.
 
VoltzElectrical said:
with the greatest respect, I'm having difficulty following the logic behind your link between your interesting anecdotes as an electrician working in the rental field and the concerns of the OP over her being charged outrageous rates by a forgetful electrician who operates a questionable business model?

Can you expand on this my good man?



Regards.
Click to expand...
As the second paragraph says both parties should do it right and put it in writing

The comment "he verbally" does not stand up in court plus I was putting the other side of the coin where as well as bad tradesman there is bad customers as well . yep the business model is questionable but if thats the case it should never have went any further so lesson learned.

Don't get me wrong I was not having a pop at the OP and you can bet your boots the next time they get work they will get it documented and yes I get irritated by the "Well I could have done it cheaper" comments because to me thats a nonsense because if you get 3 quotes and you pick the cheapest there will always be someone who will say they could have done it cheaper
 
OT, thanks for your input. I'm interested as to why you felt obligated to honour your quote for the discounted fan installation when you had already stipulated that your discounted price was dependent on your getting the distribution board change as part of the package, especially as there was nothing holding you to this as you have already stated you did not supply a written quotation?

- - - Updated - - -

oldtimer said:
As the second paragraph says both parties should do it right and put it in writing

The comment "he verbally" does not stand up in court plus I was putting the other side of the coin where as well as bad tradesman there is bad customers as well . yep the business model is questionable but if thats the case it should never have went any further so lesson learned.

Don't get me wrong I was not having a pop at the OP and you can bet your boots the next time they get work they will get it documented and yes I get irritated by the "Well I could have done it cheaper" comments because to me thats a nonsense because if you get 3 quotes and you pick the cheapest there will always be someone who will say they could have done it cheaper
Click to expand...

I hope that I haven't irritated you with an "I could have done it cheaper" comment. In this specific case, YES I damn well could have done it cheaper, and rightly so, because the price she has been given for the job is outrageous. I, and others on here would also definitely have done it cheaper, and WITHOUT cutting each others' throats either, or driving down prices.

As I have clearly quoted, 4 hours work @ £30 an hour is a fair and representative rate for a one man band providing all insurance, scheme membership etc.

can anyone really defend £20 to change a plug top for instance?

Thanks for the discussion

regards.
 
VoltzElectrical said:
OT, thanks for your input. I'm interested as to why you felt obligated to honour your quote for the discounted fan installation when you had already stipulated that your discounted price was dependent on your getting the distribution board change as part of the package, especially as there was nothing holding you to this as you have already stated you did not supply a written quotation?

- - - Updated - - -



I hope that I haven't irritated you with an "I could have done it cheaper" comment. In this specific case, YES I damn well could have done it cheaper, and rightly so, because the price she has been given for the job is outrageous. I, and others on here would also definitely have done it cheaper, and WITHOUT cutting each others' throats either, or driving down prices.

As I have clearly quoted, 4 hours work @ £30 an hour is a fair and representative rate for a one man band providing all insurance, scheme membership etc.

can anyone really defend £20 to change a plug top for instance?

Thanks for the discussion

regards.
Click to expand...

Yep apologies for that the reason why I honored the quote was I verbally said I would knock something off the fan but omitted to put this on the written quote so 2 months later was I dont want the CU but I accept your quote for the fan So now I give 2 separate quotes with the proviso that if the 2 go ahead then the discount applies if not then the individual costs stands. I do the same with the letting agent I do work for plus if I am called out to say fix a cooker switch and the tenants reports the light switch is broken I call them and they agree the extra nominal cost for the switch as it saves a call out later so just trying to be fair with people but understand that there are a minority who want to try it on or get more than they paid for.
 
If the op asked her electrician to "do whatever needs doing, regardless of cost" then she has nothing to complain about. Personally, I talk to my clients before doing anything additional to any work already discussed. It's really hard for us to comment constructively, as we haven't seen what the electrician had to do with respect to each of the jobs, but op, you obviously don't feel that you got value for money.
My advice is to pay for the work carried out, but choose a different electrician next time, and not some firm who "sends his boys round" to do it.
 
Guitarist said:
If the op asked her electrician to "do whatever needs doing, regardless of cost" then she has nothing to complain about. Personally, I talk to my clients before doing anything additional to any work already discussed. It's really hard for us to comment constructively, as we haven't seen what the electrician had to do with respect to each of the jobs, but op, you obviously don't feel that you got value for money.
My advice is to pay for the work carried out, but choose a different electrician next time, and not some firm who "sends his boys round" to do it.
Click to expand...
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chimpanzees.jpg
 

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