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Discuss One way of earthing the pipes..... in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    I was changing the consumer unit today and look how the previous person has earthed the main water and gas!
    20171113_105334.jpg

    I will give them 10 out 10 for ingenuity:confused:

    Here's how it looked after i had finished.
    20171113_134702.jpg

    On a totally different job i was called out to i came across this fitted by a so called electrician.
    20171108_135012.jpg
    The bottom of the rcd is feeding straight out to the RFC.
    How he thought that a 63amp RCD on it's own would comply with regulations is beyond me.I had to removed the enclosure and fit a larger one so that i could fit a 32 amp mcb next to the RCD as it needed.
    The guy even charged £330 just to fit that unit!

    It saddens me that cowboys like this get away with it and tarnish qualified electricians in the process.:mad:
     
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  2. Matthewd29
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    Matthewd29 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Belfast
    That looks like a really good job. Amazing what some people do. Wonder if they are even electricians or just go under the title.
     
  3. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Cable tied to pipework of other services!!!
     
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  4. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Another couple of uglies :)
    Out of interest - did contestant number 2 (how that seems to fit ...) take CPC anywhere ?
     
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  5. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    CPC came out of the bottom of the unit directly into the main earth bar.CPC was a single piece of 1.5mm green/yellow which then connected into the ring cpc's via a 15amp connector seen to the right of the photo.
     
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  6. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Done the wonder course Job done
     
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  7. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    Nice tidy job mate and a vast improvement, but your NICEIC inspector will have you by the balls for strapping the bonding wires to the services, they are supposed to be independently supported.
    Not a criticism btw...just saying cos I got picked up for it once.
     
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  8. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    Never been pulled before for tie wrapping the bonding wires and i've done it for numerous inspections before.What harm can it do.They aren't hot or don't move so i cannot see the problem?
     
  9. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    What reference method would you call it.
     
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  10. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    Not a criticism at all Bob but with the meter tails going in through the rear and not glanded I'd secure then with clips or small cleats.
     
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  11. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    The NIC did issue guidance on this very thing some time ago, I only have the BRB to hand so the reg number may have changed, but 528.3.3 (proximity to non-electrical services) basically states that where an electrical service is in close proximity to another service it shall be arranged that work on that service does not affect the electrical service. I suspect that is the reg that applies.
     
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  12. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    Cheers mate.The tails are cleated at the back of the board before i fitted it so they aren't going anywhere;)

    Is there a definite regulation about not tie wrapping bonding cables to the pipes anywhere?
    I can understand not tie wrapping t&e cables but bonding cables?
     
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  13. kingeri
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    kingeri Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Bob, why do you keep throwing the 'dumb' rating around? It's hardly helpful.
     
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  14. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    Because in general you wouldn't refer to bonding cables via the reference method so the reply is unhelpful.
     
  15. kingeri
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    kingeri Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Right.
     
  16. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Other services should not to be used to support our cables

    Besides,what would your reaction be if he started strapping his pipes to any cables that happened to be handy instead of using his own clips for support :eek::)
     
  17. Spunkywads26
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    Spunkywads26 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Business Name:
    LT Electrical
    I've a question based on OP photo of completed work. The new CU is installed on ply. I recently had my registration visit from my chosen CPS and the guy who came wants the CU I installed to be practically air tight.

    I had a garage install with 2 x 2.5mm T&E and 1 x 1.5mm T&E installed down wall in trunking to CU. I channeled the wall out to allow back entry into the CU. The gap between CU and block wall is about 5mm. The inspector told me that it was not good enough and that I should be filling the gap with intumescent foam to prevent air getting into the CU and help fuel a fire.

    Now I stood there sort of bemused and wanting to really argue it but thought for a second and asked about IP ratings of CU and if the front of the board should be sealed as the gaps between the MCBs would also be a violation. He was quite adamant about it and was stating that it all changed with amd 3.

    Now OP has installed a CU on a flammable material, I wonder what my guy would have to say about that???
     
  18. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    Plumbers view this forum, don't put ideas in their heads.
     
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  19. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    your cps inspector is a dickwad.
     
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  20. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    The reg only states that the CU should be made of non combustible material, nothing else.
     
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  21. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    pulled up by NICEIC for that once.
     
  22. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    In all fairness the inspector probably (but not certainly)exceeded the 5 weeks of some of his applicants.

    This whole cps thing just gets worse,time as long since past that it should have been shelved
     
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  23. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Methinks this may be another thing they've expanded on in their own nice way.
     
  24. DPG
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    DPG Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    S Yorkshire
    That bonding cable with the crocodile clips in the first picture - it's not some sort of temporary bonding lead put in while a plumber has disconnected some pipes is it?
     
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  25. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    As far as why we now fit metal boards,I was told it was due to the old plastic boards melting and dripping down onto flammable items below the unit and setting them on fire.You DO NOT have to make the board airtight.When AM3 came out I started sealing the back of my boards with fire proof silicone.I was told expressly by my NIC guy that this was not needed.If anyone knows of another reason as to why we have to fit these boards then please let me know:cool:
     
  26. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    Would you call 10 years temporary? :eek::eek:
     
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  27. DPG
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    DPG Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    S Yorkshire
    Perhaps he went for a sarnie and a cuppa. Maybe he's on his way back? :)
     
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  28. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    At least the mice can get into the back of it for a bit of winter shelter.
     
  29. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    You all seem to be dissing my tie wrapping the bonding wires but how would you take the wire across and support it? I can still see no practical reason why i cannot do it as i have done.Just because someones NIC bloke says you can't doesn't make it law.If any of the other posts of inspectors is to go by they seem to make it up as they go along.
     
  30. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    No one is dissing you and I have no interest in what the NICEIC recommend or suggest but the fact is they are not suitably fixed. You could have taken a short section of tube from the right side if the board.
     
  31. Bob Geldoff1234
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    Bob Geldoff1234 Regular EF Member

    But why are they not suitably fixed?What detriment can happen?They look pretty fixed to me.Where is the regulation stating that earth bonding wires have to be fixed separately from the pipe?
     
  32. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    There are never regulations such as..."An earth bonding conductor must not be secured to a pipe with cable ties". The regulations are never that specific.
    I gave you the regulation that I believe applies, in the section 'Proximity to non- electrical services'. It would not be possible for another trade to work on a non electrical service without damage to the means of securing the bonding cable. That contravenes 528.3.3.
    (From the BRB...reg number may have changed but it'll still be there).
     
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  33. darkwood
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    darkwood It's all about Gmes Staff Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    The regulations would be one reason, so in doing what you have done you have restricted the maintenance/repair to the installations of other trades.
    My other critic is your tails are in free air passing in front of other services, I understand at some point it may be necessary to do this as it taps into the meter/henley joint but would expect to see some form of restraint given the larger distance you have, consider a plumber making alterations to that pipe behind, he's going to be knocking against the tails which unless you correct me otherwise would be acting directly on the the meter/henley terminals.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  34. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    If you can be arsed, I would be tempted to email your CPS with a general technical question regarding the 'sealing' of A3 CU's with intumescent materials.

    When the replies comes back, stating there is no requirement other than maintaining IP ratings, you could then respond with your Assessment experience, and ask them to comment on that.
     
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  35. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    It should be noted no IP ratings are given for the rear of a dist board as it is assumed it will be fitted direct to a flat surface and not raised away from it.
     
  36. Spunkywads26
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    Spunkywads26 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Business Name:
    LT Electrical
    :eek: Sneaky
     
  37. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Noted. It is amusing how this reg still gives rise to debate. I expect everyone seen Wylex's Wylex launch NMFS Intumescents to further enhance Consumer Unit Fire Safety - https://www.electrium.co.uk/news/wylex-launch-nmfs-intumescents-to-further-enhance-consumer-unit-fire-safety, which they state improves CU safety :rolleyes:
     
  38. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I've raised a couple of issues of conflicting advice, given on A3 CU's, by Certsure, The Wire (Certsure) and their Technical. Never really had a conclusive response. Just shows they are human, I suppose, and how ambiguous 421.1.201 is.
     
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  39. HandySparks
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    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Hampshire
    Business Name:
    Neish Electrical Services
    Doesn't the general rule for live parts inside enclosures apply? IPXXB / IP2X (416.2.1)

    Basically, if you can't touch live parts with your (British Standard) finger, it's OK.
     
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  40. Chivers
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    Chivers EF Member

    Personally I'd have tucked the Tails behind the pipe to the left of the new Board then it could be clipped to the wall and there is also what looks like a ring final floating too. Also I can't see why the bonds on the pipes aren't nearer/next to each other? Where's the MET?

    Maybe another photo further back might reveal more.

    I'm not a domestic electrician amd my work's not perfect but if i post something criticising previous work I'd make sure mine was spot on.
     
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  41. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    And not equally spaced, shoddy workmanship....... :D:D:D
     
  42. sparkdog
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    sparkdog sparkdog Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Sunny Sussex
    Business Name:
    C MacRae Electrical
    There is no requirement to earth bagpipes.
     
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  43. DPG
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    DPG Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    S Yorkshire
    There's no requirement for bag pipes full stop!
     
  44. sparkdog
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    sparkdog sparkdog Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Sunny Sussex
    Business Name:
    C MacRae Electrical
    Och!
     
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  45. anthonybragg
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    anthonybragg Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    NORTHAMPTON
    Business Name:
    CHARLTEC ELECTRICAL LTD
    Not until the 18th comes out.
     
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