Oven Replacement - RCD?

[default]

I would say absolutely 100%, if you don't install AFDDs where they are required it's a departure and as I've outlined above, the regulations and the definition of "recommended" mean they are required in all domestic settings.

But that's just my interpretation, I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

Go back through the new regs. SPDs a must or wavier. AFDDs still just a bog standard recommendation with no caveat.

 

[timhoward]

Go back through the new regs. SPDs a must or wavier. AFDDs still just a bog standard recommendation with no caveat.

Look again!

 

[default]

Look again!

So your saying all new installations, DB changes you have to install AFDDs. EICRs, what code 2/3. Your wrong. Not mandatory.

 

[default]

So your saying all new installations, DB changes you have to install AFDDs. EICRs, what code 2/3. Your wrong. Not mandatory.

Show me where

 

[SparkyChick]

I don't have the BBB yet, but if this is what the regs actually say...

"Regulation 421.1.7 now states:

Arc fault detection devices (AFDD) conforming to
BS EN 62606 shall be provided for single-phase
AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets with a rated
current not exceeding 32 A in:

• Higher Risk Residential Buildings (HRRB)
• Houses in Multiple Occupation (HMO) i
• Purpose-built student accommodation ii
• Care homes iii

NOTE 1: Higher Risk Residential Buildings are assumed to
be residential buildings over 18 m in height or in excess of
six storeys, whichever is met first. It is anticipated that in
many areas higher risk residential buildings will be defined in
legislation which can be subject to change over time, as well
as in risk management procedures adopted by fire and rescue
services. Current legislation should be applied.

For all other premises, the use of AFDDs conforming
to BS EN 62606 is recommended for single-phase
AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets not
exceeding 32 A.

Where used, AFDDs shall be placed at the origin
of the circuit to be protected.
The use of AFDDs does not obviate the need to apply
one or more measures provided in other clauses in
BS 7671.

NOTE 2: For busbar systems conforming to BS EN 61439-6
and Powertrack systems to BS EN 61534, the AFDD may be
placed at a location other than the origin of the circuit."

Thats taken from this:-

https://www.beama.org.uk/static/60aec0d0-e6c8-4ca9-b486fb8a843d0c55/AFDD-fact-sheet-3-BS-7671-AMD2.pdf

Which also clarifies the "recommended = should".

I'd say there's no room for a choice in there.

 

[timhoward]

So your saying all new installations, DB changes you have to install AFDDs. EICRs, what code 2/3. Your wrong. Not mandatory.

No I'm not saying that.
Read 421.1.7
Note the word "shall".
Your original generalisation was not true.
What you guessed I was saying is also not true.

 

[DPG]

What a ridiculous situation. Obviously this is going to cause confusion.

I'd like to meet whoever approved that line about recommended=should and use him to test my AFDDs

 

[nicebutdim]

One point that's worth making is this 'clarification' of 'recommended' comes from a trade association and not the IET.

 

[default]

I don't have the BBB yet, but if this is what the regs actually say...

"Regulation 421.1.7 now states:

Arc fault detection devices (AFDD) conforming to
BS EN 62606 shall be provided for single-phase
AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets with a rated
current not exceeding 32 A in:

• Higher Risk Residential Buildings (HRRB)
• Houses in Multiple Occupation (HMO) i
• Purpose-built student accommodation ii
• Care homes iii

NOTE 1: Higher Risk Residential Buildings are assumed to
be residential buildings over 18 m in height or in excess of
six storeys, whichever is met first. It is anticipated that in
many areas higher risk residential buildings will be defined in
legislation which can be subject to change over time, as well
as in risk management procedures adopted by fire and rescue
services. Current legislation should be applied.

For all other premises, the use of AFDDs conforming
to BS EN 62606 is recommended for single-phase
AC final circuits supplying socket-outlets not
exceeding 32 A.

Where used, AFDDs shall be placed at the origin
of the circuit to be protected.
The use of AFDDs does not obviate the need to apply
one or more measures provided in other clauses in
BS 7671.

NOTE 2: For busbar systems conforming to BS EN 61439-6
and Powertrack systems to BS EN 61534, the AFDD may be
placed at a location other than the origin of the circuit."

Thats taken from this:-

https://www.beama.org.uk/static/60aec0d0-e6c8-4ca9-b486fb8a843d0c55/AFDD-fact-sheet-3-BS-7671-AMD2.pdf

Which also clarifies the "recommended = should".

I'd say there's no room for a choice in there.

Wow. Sorry dude. Need to look more into that. Need to see if we're just looking at new builds. And 18m is pretty high. I do mainly EICRS so need to see where this sits. Again, apologie

 

[timhoward]

Which also clarifies the "recommended = should".

I would take that clarification with a ton of salt.

Page 18 of the new regs book has a little table. The 2nd column should be the first column, as the intent is to translate the verbal form in BS7671 to an implication.
It says "Shall" is a requirement and normative, and "Should" is a recommendation (and is not normative)

If one studies the definitions on page 18 of Guidance, Normative Element, Requirement, and Recommendation I cannot see how anyone would conclude:

There is a misleading view being communicated within the industry that use of such terms as ‘recommended’, ‘additional’ and ‘specified’ demotes the requirements within the associated regulations.

In particular, Recommendation is ONE possibility and does not exclude other possibilities (including doing nothing)