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Discuss Party wall agreements are blank cheques for your neighbours to spend your money. in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I do not really expect any replies, just a little rant, a voice in the wilderness. I shelved the idea of going into my loft coversion today. The neighbours have legitimate concerns regards all sorts. The cost of appointing surveyors is such that we have decided we will have to move if we want a larger house it will be cheaper. It is just a bit disappointing that things have worked out that way. If you are considering a loft extension allow for anything up to 10k reserve funds deposited in an annexed account to pay for neighbours worries and surveyors. Rant finished.
     
  2. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
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  3. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    The figures come from appointing a party wall surveyor. One neighbour has spoken with the other neighbour and they assume I will be using ex worm farmers or trimble wheel makers from noddy land to do the building work and no structural calculations will be used or surveyors to draw up the design and submit to building control (which is already done).
    They are deeply concerned about damage to their property and want all sorts of info. At £200 per hour for an independent surveyor who they probably will not accept and want to appoint their own, I imagine at least 2k for the surveyor and more if there is any contention on the way. Apparently in London and other places surveyors send out scare letters when they get wind of upcoming developments and get the neighbour to sign up to appointing them to spend money like water. I fear, as our neighbour is very "clever" (he has downloaded and read the Party wall Act) this could lead to complications which I just can not budget for. And of course the neighbour has surveyor friends. I can't compete with that from both sides. In any event they are not going to sign, either side, which will put us into dispute automagically and surveyors will be appointed and so on. I am a simple tradesman they are professionals. And they reflect that in their attitudes and dealings with me.
     
  4. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Don't be put off, when you say "clever" you mean they are "smart arses" if you build a dormer then I would assume that you won't need a PWA?
     
  5. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Also have a chat with your neighbours as to see what concerns they have, if you have your own surveyor and they share the same surveyor then the costs could be reasonable. You can also mention that if you can't extend then you will rent the house to the local council as they are looking for properties to house recently released paedos from prison.
     
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  6. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    When I did my flat (it was end of terrace) I had the neighbour downstairs to contend with as well as the two flats next door which where Notting Hill Housing Association, in the end I went with the surveyor they appointed to keep the costs down even though the upstairs neighbour "Mr George" was a right fecking pain the the backside...........



    Oh and have a read here,


    Do I Need A Party Wall Agreement? - HomeOwners Alliance - https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-improving/party-wall-agreement/
     
  7. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Also I am now going to be harsh now, don't be a fecking ****pot and allow your neighbours to feck you over as you'll never get anywhere in life if you decide to give up at the first hurdle.


    You can thank me later ;o)))))
     
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  8. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    a dog turd though a letter box usually kills a lot of objections.
     
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  9. marconi
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    marconi Regular EF Member

    Party wall legislation and procedure - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/professional-guidance/guidance-notes/party-wall-legislation-and-procedure-6th-edition/

    Party walls - http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/glossary/party-walls/

    Just been through the saga of Party Wall Agreements with neighbours on either side of us. We appointed a 'Joint Surveyor' with their nod and spent £1800 on each PWA. Even then we had a saga with one side because of argy-bargy over scaffolding on their land, access to their land for excavations and to build the wall and hyped up concern for their safety. We were badly let down by the Joint Surveyor because he did not make it explicit that scaffolding and access were required for a good finish to the brick wall facing these neighbours and to throw and tile the roof. According to RICS and the Joint Surveyor access for scaffolding is taken as read but I would not rely on that again - be crystal clear. Also be very specific about what you are building and excavating and thus what form of access is needed and for how long.

    I emailed RICS help line and found them useful in clearing up some of the false information from our neighbours.
     
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  10. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I am looking into telebeams where I do not have to go onto the party wall. I want to do the work and just tell them when the scaffolding is going up. Then watch them explode with impotent gnashing of teeth and wailing actually. Not that I am a vengeful person. But woebetide them any work they want to do on a party wall basis.:smilingimp:
     
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  11. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    As its a loft conversion then they should be less issues as no excavations, when my neighbours did their renovation I was fine as why am I to hold up progress.
     
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  12. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Just tell them you need the loft conversion for your music studio and drum kits.........
     
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  13. marconi
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    marconi Regular EF Member

    Just tell them you need the loft conversion for your insomniac teenage son's music studio and drum kits.........
     
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  14. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    yep that is about the order of costs I would be expecting at best. Having looked at the links you furnished it makes me lose the will to live having to deal with all that! Anyway as I say Telebeams which I think @Leesparkykent@Leesparkykent put me on to when I first mentioned the idea of loft conversion on the forum.
     
  15. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Still cheaper then moving........., solicitors fees, estate agent fees, moving costs, stamp duty etc etc etc thats £20k gone.
     
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  16. marconi
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    marconi Regular EF Member

    If you have not done it, and we regret we did not, it is worth having a discussion with a scaffolder about the art of the possible. There are some very impressive scaffolds erected for building work at houses near us which do not go onto the neighbour's land - they go front to back over the top of the house.
     
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  17. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Here a back to back house purchase/sale goes for about 10g. Loft conversion 15k PWA costs maybe 5-10K. Don't forget I can go off the party wall as well and just ignore the neighbours and get on with it.
     
  18. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    scaffolding???? that's for wimps. a few beer crates stacked up well efficient up to 30 ft.
     
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  19. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    Loft conversion for £15k feck me.........

    Apologies I live in London, the prices mean its cheaper to extend then to move, the stamp duty is a real killer.

    Sell the house to a bunch of misfits and then move, that'll learn them lol
     
  20. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I know, my Son just bought a house for 675K and considered it cheap outside London! The conversion would just be a shell conversion hence cheap. The rest I will do myself. So total cost may be higher but over time.
     
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  21. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    The party wall agreement is to protect you against your neighbor making claims against you.

    2 years ago it cost us about £2700

    Irritating neighbors costs included.

    Seek local advice. You can have one surveyor to represent both of you and this saves money too.

    Edit. If you are detached this could affect you too.
     
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  22. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    It does defeat me as to why neighbours so often approach these things in a combative way. What do they think will happen if they ever want anything?
     
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  23. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    And, if you are extending, you have absolutely no right of access into your neighbour's property for scaffolding, not at ground level nor directly above the fence or wall.
     
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  24. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I am the kind of person who would sign and trust the neighbour to do what is right. Having looked into it, wow! it is a multi-million pound industry filling the pockets of totally unscrupulous and unaccountable surveyors who do not give a flying feck about anyone but their bank account. I read this one case a homeowner agreed and it was insured builder etc. Knocked down house next door their house sunk into ground some inches, builder went bust, mortgage company repo'ed house. Or plot. They had to pay thousands.
     
  25. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    As a matter of interest are you still on good terms (if you ever were) with your neighbours?
     
  26. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Our neighbors were alerted to the party wall act by ambulance chasing people. We didn't know about it, nor did they.... Needless to say we aren't talking and their stupidity cost us thousands in delays and additional costs.

    I can't wait for the day they need our assistance ...... If they ask I will have no hesitation in offering help. I will do this just to show how stupid they were.

    They have always been odd
     
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  27. Doomed
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    Doomed Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Dorset
    My loft conversion cost 23K and the neighbours were no problem - in fact it transpired that the chimney needed to be rebuilt as an additional cost, when I told the neighbour on that side I was going to have to do that as well he offered to pay half the cost of the chimney rebuild!
    Nice bloke.
    The neighbours on the other side did moan about the builders knocking their satellite dish out of alignment, which I fixed and they also mentioned that the builders oggled their 17 year old daughter in her underwear.
     
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  28. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Somerset
    if you do sell your house and move, then avoid the standard estate agents, my girlfriends sister just sold her house in Bristol using one of them online agents, she used purple bricks, it saved her nearly £2k. The fees came to about £800 instead of closer t0 £3k When she bought her current house she used a fixed fee property solicitor, she paid £500+vat. In all she was a couple of thousand to the good for avoiding the standard high street agents.
    Knowing your neck of the woods @Vortigern@Vortigern if you do sell then it will not take long to go at all and the sort of person likely to buy it would use the online platforms to find it anyway. so save your money.
    Also if you do stay put and do the attic then maybe look at indemnity policies to maybe cover yourself and avoid any surprises.
     
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  29. marconi
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    marconi Regular EF Member

    We remain polite and respectful - it's better not to have a simmering feud. We achieved what we needed to and don't worry ourselves about their awkwardness. We have not built anything extraordinary or having an impact on them.
     
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  30. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Yes you are absolutely correct. They go within a week around here especially the cul-de-sac we are in. We bought it within 1 hour of the board going up, you had to be fast as heck.
     
  31. PEG
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    PEG Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Manchester
    Hi,bud,is this conversion requiring planning permission,or just regs?
    Where i am,most standard loft conversions do not need full planning permission.
    What is the lay-out of your property,each side,etc?
     
  32. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Terraced, party wall each side. No planning permitted development with no dormers no roof change just two steels going in each side. So just regs. @PEG@PEG
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  33. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Anyhoo time for a steel bottom!
     
  34. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    what most people don't realise is that the party wall act includes detached properties.......
     
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  35. dmxtothemax
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    dmxtothemax Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Business Name:
    David Haddock Electronic Repairs
    If your surveyors/engineers are qualified and above board, then there's no reason you cannot use them, If they insist on others then they can pay for them.
     
  36. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    ^^ err , wrong. Your neighbors are allowed under the terms of the act to ensue you pay for their surveyor
     
  37. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    presumably you mean in the sense of the 3/6 metre rule and a dividing wall between two properties?
     
  38. FatAlan
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    FatAlan Trainee Trainee Access

    Location:
    Surrey
    Any pics ...............of the chimney? ;)
     
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  39. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Yes. The depth of foundations. Our extension needed piled foundations ...
     
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  40. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    3/6 metre rule ?
    Edit - just found it o_O
     
  41. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    The act show should be called the party wall and boundary development act.
     
  42. SWD
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    SWD Gender neutral Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    London
    You know the rules, photos or it never happened.........
     
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  43. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    I guess it’s better than ‘oggling their 17 year old daughter in THEIR underwear’ - that takes it to another level!
     
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  44. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    v

    Correction, just the 3 or 6 meter rule. You don't have to have a wall
     
  45. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I mean a wall in the garden front or back not just in the house.
     
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