PIR codes

[tc50]

Many thanks for your codes list ,very helpful.is there a book i can buy to assist further on this matter.cheers tc

 

[nickblake]

TC50 guidance note 3 also have a look at the little book by the ESC Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council the one you want is the best practice guide 4 which gives you the new coding for PIR's

 

[darking]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

 

[nickblake]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

So what BS number are the RCD's in a dual RCD consumer unit think you'll find they are BSEN61008 , an RCBO is a combination of MCB and RCD where the 61008 is just an RCD so as long as the out going circuits are protected by an MCB then you can have as many circuits as required , if you install an RCBO in a consumer unit with a 61008 both at 30ma then you will end up with no discrimination for the RCD/RCBO's

 

[D80]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

Why not?

 

[darking]

The failure of one circuit, say a cooker with an earth fault, will trip the RCD, causing the loss of any other circuit also protected by that RCD This is in conflict with 314.1 and 314.2. i hope that will explain "Why not?"

 

[trev]

So split load boards with two RCDs are non-compliant since the RCDs cover more than one circuit?

 

[nickblake]

Noo you are mis under standing that reg when you design an installation you design it to reduce any incovieniance if an RCD trips for instance you would install the upstairs lighting on the same RCD protected circuits and the down staires sockets ,for circuits that are likly to trip an RCD ie garage shed hot tub you would install on independant circuits protected by RCBO's or and MCB depending on what the circuits is suppling , thats why we have 17 edition consumer units some hi integrety where you can use RCBO,s and RCD protected MCB's idealy you would install all circuits on RCBO's i grant you that but you can protect more than 1 circuit with a 61008

 

[trev]

Sorry mate I wasn't sure what you were driving at.

 

[darking]

Nickblake there is no such thing as a 17th edition consumer unit, its how you configure the board that will determine whether or not your installation complies. i will agree with you that not every circuit needs RCD protection.

If you look at the list supplied earlier you will see where RCBO's are indicated. any other circuit must be individually assessed. the garage shed that you mentioned, being outside the equipotential zone is a case in point and needs RCD protection

For cascaded RCD's the upstream RCD could be a time delayed or Type S with an ordinary RCD after that. in the case of your shed the TDR could supply the cable to the shed (to protect the cable) and an RCBO to protect the tub circuit etc. this will provide discrimination between the two RCD devices and give the best protection.

 

[tc50]

tc50 guidance note 3 also have a look at the little book by the esc best practice guides : Electrical safety council the one you want is the best practice guide 4 which gives you the new coding for pir's

many thanks dude i,ll get it as i,m just starting on testing.

 

[nickblake]

Nickblake there is no such thing as a 17th edition consumer unit, its how you configure the board that will determine whether or not your installation complies. i will agree with you that not every circuit needs RCD protection.

If you look at the list supplied earlier you will see where RCBO's are indicated. any other circuit must be individually assessed. the garage shed that you mentioned, being outside the equipotential zone is a case in point and needs RCD protection

For cascaded RCD's the upstream RCD could be a time delayed or Type S with an ordinary RCD after that. in the case of your shed the TDR could supply the cable to the shed (to protect the cable) and an RCBO to protect the tub circuit etc. this will provide discrimination between the two RCD devices and give the best protection.

Very aware of what you have said here, and its terminology for a 17th edition board as every manufacturer advertises boards 17th edition compliant hence the reason we use 17th edition board its the same with testers they all say 17th edition comliant before that it was 16th edition the meters didnt change the poit i was making is as you said the 61008 cant be used for more than one circuit and thats wrong it can

 

[darking]

The fault in one circuit will cause the RCD to trip and cause the failure of any other circuit connected to it.

Read 314.2 then go argue with the IEE, you CAN connect anything any way you want to, you just won't comply!

 

[nickblake]

seperate circuits shall be provided for parts of the installation that need to be controlled seperatlyin such a way that those circuits are not effected by failure of others , and due account shall be taken of the consiquences of any single device , does not nesseserily mean all the circuits , for instance if you have a freezer plugged into the kitchen ring then there is a possability that the freezer will defrost in this case you will then install an unprotected circuit for the freezer , another instance is smoke detection and one reason they should be on there own circuit ,another is a shed garage hot tub i name a few , if you want to comply with regulation 314.2 100 % then every single point in a house would have to be protected by its own protective device even with RCBO protection say a kitchen ring for instance you could end up with the same scenario its all about designe

 

[darking]

Hi Nick, much as I am enjoying this discussion i think we are singing from the same hymn sheet.

See " i agree with you that not every circuit needs RCD protection. If you look at the list supplied earlier you will see where RCBO's are indicated. any other circuit must be individually assessed."

Regards

Darking

 

[g-davies]

Thanks for this little pdf,I studied the 1 st ammendment upgrade but still puzzled over my first EICR .

 

[Cazmac1]

Any one got a good up to date list of fault/ defects and codes?

 

[IQ Electrical]

This is about the best you'll find:
http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...y/best_practice/BestPracticeGuide4-Locked.pdf

 

[Cazmac1]

Thanks I have a little read tomorrow.

I have a question for you guys.
I'm doing a PIR on a job at the moment and would say that it falls under the 16th edition and have found that in the kitchen the bonding on the metal sinks and cross bonds to the the metal food prep tables has either been removed come loose or broke off. This is due to the fact that when they pull the tables out for cleaning they are breaking and moving the bonds. There is no RCD protection in the kitchen so what code would I place on this? Code 1 or 2

 

[IQ Electrical]

I'd be amazed if any of those sinks or tables meet the definition of an extraneous-conductive part, there is no requirement for supplementary bonding in a kitchen either.

If you're doing this PIR then you need to be familiar with these requirements.