Probably will be a daft question, but being an oldie I'll ask it anyway

[Pete999]

What constitutes an "Approved Electrician "these days? when I was working it meant you had at least the C&Gs B certificate, 27 years old+ with a certain amount of years experience.
Is it something to do with being an Approved contractor?

 

[JAWS]

I thought Approved electrican is those who have completed their apprenticeships I believe.

 

[loplug]

'approved electrician' is a jib grade
you need to have completed
apprenticeship
nvq 3 in electrical
am2
inspection and testing
and two years graded as an electrician

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I dont think there is such a thing these days, from the councils and building controls point of view it will be part of a part p scheme such as niceic Di. but ask certsure and they will tell you the ac scheme is the be all and end all and is a sign of quality.... i will stop now as im laughing writing that...

 

[Pete999]

I dont think there is such a thing these days, from the councils and building controls point of view it will be part of a part p scheme such as niceic Di. but ask certsure and they will tell you the ac scheme is the be all and end all and is a sign of quality.... i will stop now as im laughing writing that...

Not laughing at the question, I hope?

 

[loplug]

this thread has a better description
JIB Grading Definitions - Approved Electrician Grade - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/jib-grading-definitions-approved-electrician-grade.5633/

 

[Pete999]

this thread has a better description
JIB Grading Definitions - Approved Electrician Grade - https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/jib-grading-definitions-approved-electrician-grade.5633/

Thanks that answers my question, but makes me think there are some folk using the "Approved" bit as in the Approved Contractor mode, judging from some of the questions asked.

 

[loplug]

Thanks that answers my question, but makes me think there are some folk using the "Approved" bit as in the Approved Contractor mode, judging from some of the questions asked.

two different meanings you could become an approved contractor with out being qualified to become an approved electrician.

 

[Pete999]

two different meanings you could become an approved contractor with out being qualified to become an approved electrician.

Thanks

 

[AJshep]

I'm not sure about this deal that the NICEIC have with the JIB now though.
If you are an NICEIC member (which requires little training)
I believe you can bypass all the whole NVQ, AM2, 2391 and apply for your gold card after you have had a few satisfactory inspections..

Not sure you can get the JIB "approved grading " but a gold card none the less..
Maybe someone else can clarify, kinda makes a bit of a mockery of it though.

 

[Risteard]

As stated Approved Electrician is a long-standing JIB grade.

 

[Pete999]

As stated Approved Electrician is a long-standing JIB grade.

Agrre, but how doyou cater for, Sole Traders and companies that do not, or rather are not affiliated to the JIB, I still think some people see Approved Electrician for many means an Approved contractor.

 

[AJshep]

I think a lot of people do Pete..
I often see full scope NICEIC contractors (mainly) in my area calling themselves NICEIC Approved electrican.
I think my website says I'm approved by NAPIT when really it should say endorsed, (need to get the wife to change it).

I'm a sole trader now and the Joe public have no idea what approved electrician means either, Im sure. I advertise myself as an Approved electrician in hope that a potential customer might know what it means but I think I'm going to change it to say JIB graded "Approved electrician"

I Just changed my profile page too.

 

[Risteard]

Agrre, but how doyou cater for, Sole Traders and companies that do not, or rather are not affiliated to the JIB, I still think some people see Approved Electrician for many means an Approved contractor.

JIB grading has nothing to do with whether you work for a JIB company or not. It just means that you are not bound by the JIB National Working Rules if not a JIB company, so JIB rates etc. wouldn't apply. Doesn't stop you being graded though.

 

[JAWS]

You could actually make any name up TBF and any letters and I would bet the customer wouldnt know any different.

Most of them will be more interested on the price then whether they are approved/JIB qualified.

When I had my shed done a couple of year back my questions were what is the price and can you sign the work off afterwards.

 

[Pete999]

I think a lot of people do Pete..
I often see full scope NICEIC contractors (mainly) in my area calling themselves NICEIC Approved electrican.
I think my website says I'm approved by NAPIT when really it should say endorsed, (need to get the wife to change it).

I'm a sole trader now and the Joe public have no idea what approved electrician means either, Im sure. I advertise myself as an Approved electrician in hope that a potential customer might know what it means but I think I'm going to change it to say JIB graded "Approved electrician"

I Just changed my profile page too.

Makes sense Mate avoids any misconceptions. good for you.

 

[Pete999]

I think a lot of people do Pete..
I often see full scope NICEIC contractors (mainly) in my area calling themselves NICEIC Approved electrican.
I think my website says I'm approved by NAPIT when really it should say endorsed, (need to get the wife to change it).

I'm a sole trader now and the Joe public have no idea what approved electrician means either, Im sure. I advertise myself as an Approved electrician in hope that a potential customer might know what it means but I think I'm going to change it to say JIB graded "Approved electrician"

I Just changed my profile page too.

Makes sense Mate avoids any misconceptions. good for you.

JIB grading has nothing to do with whether you work for a JIB company or not. It just means that you are not bound by the JIB National Working Rules if not a JIB company, so JIB rates etc. wouldn't apply. Doesn't stop you being graded though.

JIB grading has nothing to do with whether you work for a JIB company or not. It just means that you are not bound by the JIB National Working Rules if not a JIB company, so JIB rates etc. wouldn't apply. Doesn't stop you being graded though.

So if you don't have to adhere to the JIB rules and Regs, how can you be JIB graded? seems a bit odd, doesn't follow any logic, how can you hold a JIB grade card?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The grade reflects your qualifications and experience.
Although, you no longer have to be graded to hold a gold card.

 

[Pete999]

You could actually make any name up TBF and any letters and I would bet the customer wouldnt know any different.

Most of them will be more interested on the price then whether they are approved/JIB qualified.

When I had my shed done a couple of year back my questions were what is the price and can you sign the work off afterwards.

 

[Pete999]

The grade reflects your qualifications and experience.
Although, you no longer have to be graded to hold a gold card.

Just goes to show how far down the slippery road to ruin this trade of ours has slipped.

 

[Andy78]

So if you don't have to adhere to the JIB rules and Regs, how can you be JIB graded? seems a bit odd, doesn't follow any logic, how can you hols a JIB grade card?

Your JIB grade comes from applying and depends on your qualification and experience levels. This is a personal grading

IF you then work for a JIB registered company then all the rules of the JIB come into play..... pay reflected by grade, national working rules, overtime rules etc

If you work for a non JIB company they are free to recognise your grade or not as they choose. The grades are generally accepted industry wide though.

 

[AJshep]

Just goes to show how far down the slippery road to ruin this trade of ours has slipped.

I believe these other Gold cards are in effect just ECS cards (to allow the bearer on site) I dont think they have JIB written on them or a grading.
I've only ever seen one until recently and that's my own, nobody gives a monkeys if you have one or not in my area. Most sparks in my area just do the CSCS exam if they want to work on sites.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I believe these other Gold cards are in effect just ECS cards (to allow the bearer on site) I dont think they have JIB written on them or a grading.
I've only ever seen one until recently and that's my own, nobody gives a monkeys if you have one or not in my area. Most sparks in my area just do the CSCS exam if they want to work on sites.

They are the same, just some have ‘JIB Grade’ on them, some don’t.
Though there are some that don’t have JIB on them?

 

[AJshep]

Thanks @spinlondon.
Just found this, mentions all the different parts of the card.
The ECS Card Explained | Electrotechnical Certification Scheme - https://www.ecscard.org.uk/about-the-ecs/the-ecs-card-explained

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

@AJshep you are indeed correct, if you have been a QS for a niceic AC firm for 3 years then you can get a gold card. you get the recognition of installation electrician on the card it appears. details here
Supporting contractors in the building services sector | NICEIC - https://www.niceic.com/goldcard

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That link shows a card without JIB in big green letters across it.
It also shows a JIB grade of ‘Approved Electrician’ yet doesn’t list any qualifications?

 

[PEG]

I reckon whatever colour/grade/status of card is held,as long as two people can hold the identical card,with one a talented craftsman,and the other a dangerous fool,then the chances of it meaning something,are limited.

It may once of been a very likely indicator of a tradesman's merit,but it seems to have been diluted and obscured to more hope than logic.

I don't know why i did my doctorate...when i could have bought one,online...

 

[Pete999]

That link shows a card without JIB in big green letters across it.
It also shows a JIB grade of ‘Approved Electrician’ yet doesn’t list any qualifications?

'Might do on the back Spin, b--ger can't turn it over to look lol, just funning

 

[JAWS]

I know now there are many routes to become an approved contractor/Gold card JIB graded and one of them is doing the NVQ portfolio.

But... with NVQ's not fully recognized until the middle 90's how different was it for electricians getting qualified in the 80's or 90's to now.

How did it work in then? was it you done your apprenticeship got your 236 A+B then you were qualified?

 

[Pete999]

I know now there are many routes to become an approved contractor/Gold card JIB graded and one of them is doing the NVQ portfolio.

But... with NVQ's not fully recognized until the middle 90's how different was it for electricians getting qualified in the 80's or 90's to now.

How did it work in then? was it you done your apprenticeship got your 236 A+B then you were qualified?

Things have changed a great deal Mate, back in the day when the JIB started I think it was up to the Boss to fill in your Grading application.
I know I had an awful job to get Approved status even having the required quals and at least 3 years post Apprenticeship, moved into the Public sector soon after, just kept my card but got paid the same as all the other Electricians.
No NVQs in those days, even had an Electricians Mate to carry all the steps, tool etc, the one I had used to get very upset if I picked something up to carry back to the workshop.
Halcion days when being a tradesperson meant something.

 

[JAWS]

Cheers Pete.

 

[sham]

I'm not sure about this deal that the NICEIC have with the JIB now though.
If you are an NICEIC member (which requires little training)
I believe you can bypass all the whole NVQ, AM2, 2391 and apply for your gold card after you have had a few satisfactory inspections..

Not sure you can get the JIB "approved grading " but a gold card none the less..
Maybe someone else can clarify, kinda makes a bit of a mockery of it though.

Yes, that is correctamundo, my gold card should be with me by next week. The ECS card seems to be more popular with employers than Being Approved Electrician with NICSHIT. Oh and 1% of the price.

 

[sham]

I'm not sure about this deal that the NICEIC have with the JIB now though.
If you are an NICEIC member (which requires little training)
I believe you can bypass all the whole NVQ, AM2, 2391 and apply for your gold card after you have had a few satisfactory inspections..

Not sure you can get the JIB "approved grading " but a gold card none the less..
Maybe someone else can clarify, kinda makes a bit of a mockery of it though.

Yes, that is correctamundo, my gold card should be with me by next week. The ECS card seems to be more popular with employers than Being Approved Electrician with NICSHIT. Oh and 1% of the price.

 

[sham]

If anybody tells me that they are an approved electrician, I assume it means they are part of a scheme, Elecsa, Part P, ECA and all the others. If they say they are a qualified electrician, that means to me that they did their courses at college and that's it. All Approved Electrician or Certified Electrician will say they are an approved electrician that carry out certificates than to say I'm just qualified. That is how I interpret.

 

[Pete999]

If anybody tells me that they are an approved electrician, I assume it means they are part of a scheme, Elecsa, Part P, ECA and all the others. If they say they are a qualified electrician, that means to me that they did their courses at college and that's it. All Approved Electrician or Certified Electrician will say they are an approved electrician that carry out certificates than to say I'm just qualified. That is how I interpret.

I dissagreed with the second part of you post Mate, anyone can call themselve Approved these days.

 

[sham]

That's ok, The reason I say that is because of the meaning of the word Approved. In the case of the NICEIC who seem to have some Authority to say, we have approved him. His a ''Made Man'' lol.

 

[AJshep]

The JIB grading "Approved" isn't the best terminology really..
You could be approved by anything.

Approved by NIC, Napit Storma .
Approved by A letting agent.
Approved by Checkatrade.
Approved by Trustmark.

Although JIB have now got this ECS registered electricain scheme where members of the public can look up your quals. But it looks a bit of a pain as you need the Gold card holders card number ?
Personally I think more should be done so members of the public can check out our qualifications.

I did my 2360 Part 1 and 2 it was pretty hard.. I think only 4 of us out of 30 passed. I bet it was even harder when it was part A and B.

My old teacher Pete Tanner, told us outright that the exams were hard for a reason. He was a great teacher and a member of the IET and used to moan about up and coming changes to the courses but I believe the college's were government funded and the funding was only received when the apprentice passed.

I think this is why they made it easier, I

Here he is talking about City and Guild the video made me laugh, as i remember him in the classroom 21 years ago...you can still tell what he thinks.
https://tv.------.org/?videoid=8029

 

[Pete999]

That's ok, The reason I say that is because of the meaning of the word Approved. In the case of the NICEIC who seem to have some Authority to say, we have approved him. His a ''Made Man'' lol.

Personally there is a simple answer in my opinion:
1) The person is describing Him/Her self as an Approved Electrician, who has completed all the qualifications and experience that has allowed Him/ Her to use that title.
2) The Person wishes He/She was / is an Approved Electrician, and is using the missnomer created by NICEIC, and the other Schemes, as an Approved Contractor, or Approved by so and so there is a difference, although Joe public don't realise it.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Hmm, title says ‘students guide to the wiring regulations’?

 

[AJshep]

I think that particular video was just talking about his book.

 

[PEG]

Mmmmm,i'll take being "appreciated" above being "approved",any day of the week...

I am not a number...I'm a free man

 

[sham]

When people ask you are you approved or certified, They are asking can you sign off your own work and notify building control. When I look at jobs advertisements, they ask if you are qualified to 17th edition and if you have ECS or CSCS these jobs are mainly under supervision or limited. Other advertisements will ask you if you are an approved electrician and the job is to be a Tester and Inspector and to sign off your own works so they don't have to. This is what I base my opinion on.

 

[telectrix]

some confusion between approved electrician and the niceic title of approved contractor. 2 entirely different meanings.

 

[JAWS]

That Thomas Nagy fella on YouTube done all his apprenticeships etc yet when you look up him he comes as approved contractor.

All quite confusing

 

[Pete999]

That Thomas Nagy fella on YouTube done all his apprenticeships etc yet when you look up him he comes as approved contractor.

All quite confusing

Not really Thomas could be an Approved contractor, with his turnover don't suppose he is bothered, what you call him. He might be an Approved Electrician, but his NICEIC Sticker calls him an Approved contractor.

 

[JAWS]

Not really Thomas could be an Approved contractor, with his turnover don't suppose he is bothered

Good point Pete

 

[sham]

I'm getting confused, whom approves an electrician. To me it's about the word Approve.

 

[sham]

I'm getting confused, whom approves an electrician. To me it's about the word Approve.

some confusion between approved electrician and the niceic title of approved contractor. 2 entirely different meanings.

National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC) How you word it, it's still means electrician.

 

[Pete999]

Good point Pete

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

I'm getting confused, whom approves an electrician. To me it's about the word Approve.

National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting (NICEIC) How you word it, it's still means electrician.

does it my arse. a Electrical Trainee domestic installer can be niceic. that does not mean he's an electrician or knows his arse from his elbow. as long as his cheque cleared.