Prosecution

[richy3333]

Now you mention it my NICEIC assessor was banging on about fusing fans at my last assessment. When he asked me what I did, I just said I followed BS7671 and manufacturers instructions. He accepted that and then mentioned the fused switches, others have also highlighted.

 

[Robert Turnbull]

On that note even a fused spur would be useless unless you fuse down the lighting for the room before you do the switching.

Sorry?

If you've got a 3 core t+e a fused spur isn't going to help is it. As you can't fuse down live and switch live

If you fused the feed into the room down then it would be.

Not that I'm saying that's a good idea.

 

[Fin170]

Time to invest in 3amp MCBs i think, although if everyone did that I guess they would change the game and insist on 1amp fuses to make sure they've got another get out of claim card

 

[kingeri]

I always fuse down to 3a where specified in the instructions. Many actually call for local DP isolation. Easiest way to do this IS to fuse down the whole of the bathroom lights, thus encompassing the switched and perm lives. Nobody can argue then. It's a ballache if the fuse blows of course, cos it takes out the lights as well......but hey ho. The fusing down is a bit of a mystery to me, cos the circuit is protected at 6a anyway! And would a 3a fuse blow before a 6a MCB operated?

 

[electric will]

A total load of rubbish! If you stall one of them tiny fan motors, there's no way it could cause enough over current to start a fire Come on get real!

 

[morph]

just use a 3 A cb

 

[markc123]

Just had a quick scout on the good old google, apparantly MK make a 3A MCB? really? i never knew 3Amp MCB's even existed, where the F have i been living all this time!

If it is true about fans needing 3A, then if its a new build you could take it from its own circuit...i fear for this though, wont be long before literally everything will have its own dedicated circuit.

 

[Rampantchilli]

just looked on the IET forums, and low and behold, its mentioned on there, via an NIC inspection, but from 12 months ago, and story says its from recent years, seems like a bit of NIC fore play before they s***w you

IET Forums - Fuse protection for extraction fans

 

[morph]

Just had a quick scout on the good old google, apparantly MK make a 3A MCB? really? i never knew 3Amp MCB's even existed, where the F have i been living all this time!

If it is true about fans needing 3A, then if its a new build you could take it from its own circuit...i fear for this though, wont be long before literally everything will have its own dedicated circuit.

u only had to ask lol

 

[markc123]

I honestly never ever new that 3A MCB's existed hahaha oh my days.

Isit just MK that make them?

 

[Rampantchilli]

If it is true about fans needing 3A, then if its a new build you could take it from its own circuit...i fear for this though, wont be long before literally everything will have its own dedicated circuit.

in some countries in europe, each circuit in each room is fused separately, imagine a house with 13 rooms, could easily be 30 circuits,all rcbos, oh the cost of a CU change, happy days lol
this will be 19th edition

 

[markc123]

What about 18th ramp lol? Does he get missed out lol

 

[Megavolt]

A total load of rubbish! If you stall one of them tiny fan motors, there's no way it could cause enough over current to start a fire Come on get real!

Seen the after math afew years ago fan caught on fire melt off wall landing in bath melting through bath. We carried out repairs for insurance company.

 

[markc123]

Elrick, so the solution is either on its own 3amp mcb, or having a fuse spur next to the fan isolator? The latter is going to have to take some working out in my head.

This thread has been a real food for thought. Honestly never ever thought of fusing a fan down, ever.

 

[Rampantchilli]

Elrick, so the solution is either on its own 3amp mcb, or having a fuse spur next to the fan isolator? The latter is going to have to take some working out in my head.

This thread has been a real food for thought. Honestly never ever thought of fusing a fan down, ever.

not that difficult really, just put FCU before bath light, assuming its 3 plate, then alls good, fan isolator in normal place,

question is, what if your fitting a 12v fan, and the transformer has a 100mA fuse built in

 

[Guest55]

Seen the after math afew years ago fan caught on fire melt off wall landing in bath melting through bath. We carried out repairs for insurance company.

someone else from 'pool.
think thats 3 of us now lol.
;-)

 

[Fin170]

If it's a new build you could easily work the circuit on a 3amp breaker (all the lighting in my house hardly goes over 1 amp), especially being all the pendants should (more or less anyway) be low energy. MK is the only manufacture I've seen selling them en masse but I'm sure there will be others

And I'm with the general consensus that the fan would of burnt out long before the fuse thought about blowing :lol:

 

[vaughant]

A total load of rubbish! If you stall one of them tiny fan motors, there's no way it could cause enough over current to start a fire Come on get real!

Seen a few burn out in panels before (industrial) and they do literally melt away to nothing.
A few have caused fires in the past and actually thinking about it they were fused inline and the fuse never blew!!!!
Usually though in those type of panels you get a 240v/110v supply before the main isolator so you can use panel lighting/fans/sockets etc so they do get rated up a bit.

 

[phb]

I honestly never ever new that 3A MCB's existed hahaha oh my days.

Isit just MK that make them?

Abb make 1, 2, 3, 4
..... amp mcb's

 

[electric will]

Errr, what type of fan are you talking about? Small cooling fan or something? We're on about the tiny fans (about 10w) used for extraction in bathrooms etc

 

[onions1066]

er , no you dont cos its complete nonsense lol.
so 99% of properties will now fail your EICR's then ?
that is truely money grabbing , regs bending , mind numbing baloney.

why is it none sense .?

 

[onions1066]

so NIC now also overrule any manufacturers instructions, they really are the font of all electrical knowledge now aren't they.

Diilb you have a lot of bitterness towards NIC, I take it your not a member

 

[Silly Sausage]

Diilb you have a lot of bitterness towards NIC, I take it your not a member

Because they are taking the proverbial!

 

[onions1066]

Because they are taking the proverbial!

You not a fan of there's either then, what are they talking the proverbial regarding ?

 

[ipf]

You not a fan of there's either then, what are they talking the proverbial regarding ?

All this talk about fans.....If it's gonna burn what preference would a 3amp fuse hold over a 6 amp cb?

 

[brucelee]

I believe that there is.

Is there wish I had known that mate just recently fitted a3A FCU & 3 pole pull switch isolator high level out the zones for a fan in my bruvs bathroom as manufacturers stated 3A fuse
so a 3 pole iso with a fuse would have been ideal

its got to be safer now than the fan it replaced as that was wired in 1mm direct from the shower pull switch which was wired in 6mm and fed from 32A Bs3036 the 6mm was also tapped off with a Jb hidden and 2.5mm out under boards in loft to a old FCU in bedroom which used to feed to the old central heating system all still connected even though fan had given up long ago , central heating has been replaced and moved to new location and shower had now been replaced with a thermostatic mixer tap Type shower as the shower had given up the mice had also been at cable at some point also No RCd old wylex wooden backed Fusebard well open wooden backed with Bs 3036 fuses 4 way each way stuffed with as many cables as could possibly ft for various circuits

 

[tigerpaul]

I think the main point the assessor was making was that when the shi& hits the fan (or in this case, fire!) the lawyers can have you in court with your pants down. I will call the ECA guy sometime this week and ask him for any more details on the story.

 

[morph]

why is it a 3 amp fuse and not 1 amp
fan is about 100 w/ 150 w

 

[richy3333]

I honestly never ever new that 3A MCB's existed hahaha oh my days.

Isit just MK that make them?

Hager list a 0.5,1,2,3,4A type C MCB

 

[yellowvanman]

Going back to the original post, what law has the guy being prosecuted against? BS7671 is not legally binding.

Also I beleive you can configure a fused triple pole switch using click.

 

[ste mac]

I think that if the manufacturer requires their equipment to be fused then they should install the relevant fuse in their equipment, then if the fuse blows it will require an electrician to change the fuse which should ensure that the reason for fuse failure is identified and rectified and that the a correctly rated replacement fuse is installed.

 

[cymroaur]

All the fans I've installed I've fused to 3A, as per manufacturer's instructions. I normally have those dual 1G boxes to hand for the purpose. The whole bathroom goes onto the FCU, with the fan iso along side.

 

[richy3333]

This is what you need...

 

[Fin170]

Didn't somebody on here mention once they had some Chinese equipment they had to install and had manufactures instructions stating that neutrals were to be fused?

Would you still follow their instructions or the standard nic reply or would you apply professionalism to the incident? Just to throw a spanner in the works....

 

[Robert Turnbull]

This is what you need...
View attachment 16712View attachment 16713

You'd need 2 fuses unless you fuse down the whole room. Could you configure that with 2 fuses into a double box? what do the front plates look like?

 

[ste mac]

The switch and fuse holder are the Click Mode range. You buy modules an fit them into the normal face plates. 4 gang face plate would be a 2 gang back box. Or you could fit the fan isolator and bathroom light switch into a 3gang plate and 2 fuse holders into a 2gang plate next to it in a dual back box.

 

[bodders22]

According to there website http://www.greenwood.co.uk/media/pdfs/AXS100%20NB%20data%20sheet.pdf Greenwood AXS 100 fans do not require fusing down when fed from a 6amp mcb lighting circuit. Solves the problem I think !

 

[richy3333]

^^^ Yep lets all buy Greenwood fans. In yer face Vent Axia and Xpelair

 

[Engineer54]

I dunno what your all going on about. There is no prosecution going on, it's just another tall story!! If anyone would get the blame (if it were true), it should be the fan manufacture. A 10/20W fan isn't going to be too well protected by a 3A HRC fuse or 6A MCB, so it's all academic, your all scaring yourself's silly, about something your not ultimately responsible for...

 

[Guest55]

Didn't somebody on here mention once they had some Chinese equipment they had to install and had manufactures instructions stating that neutrals were to be fused?

Would you still follow their instructions or the standard nic reply or would you apply professionalism to the incident? Just to throw a spanner in the works....

i'd never follow manufacturers instructions that directly contradicted bs7671.
ie use your loaf ;-)