Qualifications confusion.......

[Rob99]

Am currently extending house and will be installing a smart home system throughout. My builder's sparks will be doing whatever is required to comply with regs etc.
I'm also intending to operate the smart home installation stuff as a bit of a future career change/semi retirement business hopefully later this year but I have been trying to work out from all the info out there what I might need to get qualified and/or certified to be able to do my own smart home electrical works in the future. The training providers seem particularly confusing!!
I know I could use a qualified sparks for every installation but I don't want to have to rely on someone else, especially as it will only be ad-hoc work and I know I couldn't expect them to fit in with me when I needed them.
Thanks all

 

[davesparks]

The main qualification needed to carry out electrical work safely and in compliance with the regulations is an apprenticeship with a competent and experienced electrician, or if possible a few such electricians.
The rest of the available qualifications are additional to this core requirement.

 

[Dave Rudderham]

OR, if an apprenticeship is out of the question like it is for me, 2 years of college and work with an electrician, even if it's for expenses or for free. Take a short course with no experience and you'll fall flat on your backside.

 

[davesparks]

OR, if an apprenticeship is out of the question like it is for me, 2 years of college and work with an electrician,

What’s that if it’s not an apprenticeship?

 

[Dave Rudderham]

What’s that if it’s not an apprenticeship?

It's not what they call a "recognised apprenticeship"it's unofficial, not given a provider like JTL and not audited and often you don't get any remuneration.

 

[JAWS]

Apprenticeships are all well and good if you ever mange to get one and these days are not like the old days where they were plenty & unfortunately with many with families, rent, mortgage etc then finding the odd days as a mate and evening school is the next best option IMO.

 

[Dave Rudderham]

Apprenticeships are all well and good if you ever mange to get one and these days are not like the old days where they were plenty & unfortunately with many with families, rent, mortgage etc then finding the odd days as a mate and evening school is the next best option IMO.

when I left school, all there was available was a "modern apprenticeship" which at the time paid a whoppingly massive 40 quid a week if you were lucky, and they expected you to be able to drive. It's the main reason we're in such a mess now. By the time they realised and brought the proper apprenticeship back it was too late. There's limited help for adult learners as well, if you choose to do the correct college route, you have to self fund through Level 2 and you might get a Learning Loan for Level 3. We could only do it because my wife is a university student. It's been tight, I left a tenner an hour job to retrain and we've lived on student finance, tax credits and a few quid of work I manage to get part time.

 

[Rpa07]

If it’s not called ‘apprenticeship’ I preferred to call mine ‘mentorship’ and the experience was priceless which is handy as the pay was poor - worth it though.

What’s that if it’s not an apprenticeship?

 

[Rob99]

It seems to me that the only suggestions are for some form of apprenticeship. Realistically that's not an option for me being that I have a family, a mortgage and other responsibilities and very much are not in my twenties any longer!

At the risk of annoying several people, I'm not a numpty when it comes to being half way competent to do electrical works having been involved in some way or other with domestic/residential utilities and services for over 30 years.

There must surely be a sensible approach for people like myself who perhaps have a good understanding of basics but want to "formalise" that knowledge with a qualification which recognises that they have the necessary skills to do electrical work to a safe acceptable standard.

Certainly all the training providers I've looked at never seem to suggest an apprenticeship is the only way to do it. Even apprentices have to attend courses and pass exams and assessments.

My question was really to get some clarity about which courses I should be considering as there is a lot of conflicting information which on the face of it isn't helpful!

 

[Rpa07]

It’s all about the experience of the works without the need to ‘blag’ it. There are ways to do things and you can only pick that up from watching and doing, discussing and digesting (information that is).
In domestic, you can’t blag it as there is too much at stake such as a reputation.
I guess I’m just fortunate (blessed I call it) but I kept being in the right place at the right time for the experiences I needed. I hope everyone new gets that too but like I say, I was blessed!
Praise the Lord.

 

[Nobbin]

when I left school, all there was available was a "modern apprenticeship" which at the time paid a whoppingly massive 40 quid a week if you were lucky, and they expected you to be able to drive. It's the main reason we're in such a mess now. By the time they realised and brought the proper apprenticeship back it was too late. There's limited help for adult learners as well, if you choose to do the correct college route, you have to self fund through Level 2 and you might get a Learning Loan for Level 3. We could only do it because my wife is a university student. It's been tight, I left a tenner an hour job to retrain and we've lived on student finance, tax credits and a few quid of work I manage to get part time.

I was on £9.50 a week and loved it.

 

[Rpa07]

How much were John Players then?

I was on £9.50 a week and loved it.

I remember the last years of school being able to have rice, chips and gravy for 27 1/2p or getting 10 John player for the same and nicking some chips off my mates to supplement the nutrition.

 

[Nobbin]

Please do NOT look at the Domestic Electrical Installer courses offered by numerous 'colleges'. They are NOT worth the money. I know, cos' I did one.
I started in 1980 and left some years later to make my fortune.
Having made and lost that fortune (Thank you 2008) I am back again with this ugly bunch, trying to make sense of all these damned regulations.
I thought the DEI course would help me get up to speed, but I was wrong. all it did was relieve me of £4000 and make me more aware of what I didn't know.
I was extremely lucky because I was about to go solo (desperate but bad move). I contacted a local company and was offered an interview (in a pub).
It turns out that our face to face was enough for the boss to trust me to do 1st and 2nd fix AND to mentor me.
Less than 2 months in and I'm doing full house rewires again and CU exchanges, albeit with a senior Electrician present. But I couldn't be happier.
I'm still advertising myself as Localec, but I'm PAYE with my mentor.

I wish you the best of luck but implore you to keep seeking advise from these forums. These guys have been there and done it. Don't end up walking through the same crap they did when they can simply say "don't do that... do this."

 

[Adam W]

To be an electrician you need an NVQ level 3 in electrical installation (a work-based assessment portfolio), and an AM2 (a college-based practical assessment). You'll also need to prove underpinning knowledge, usually with a technical certificate which can be done at a college.

The problems start when you try to beat your own "path"; you might think you need a few modules of a modular course which you can add to at a later date, and there are companies which will sell you whatever you want if you have the money, but you will most likely end up disappointed, possibly even back on here complaining that the company have "ripped you off".

 

[magnoliafan89]

Nothing beats good old experience with a competent qaulified spark or company. I decided to not bother with any mickey mouse courses or these 6 week intensive courses as ive met people from them who have also said they had knowledge in the field already...yet seeing their work it looked like a blindfolded chimp had done it.

 

[Rob99]

Thanks all.

I have no intentions of becoming a full time sparks with a full range of electrical services on offer. I'm not setting up an electrical contracting business and have no intention of working for anyone else, been there done that - too much hassle. I'm trying to move into semi-retirement not a full-on career change and with teenagers at home I just don't have the energy anymore.....

I was hoping to be able to just study enough to be qualified to do my own wiring as it relates to the smart home installations I'm going to be offering.

Does seem like it's a bit of an inflexible all or nothing approach.....

 

[AJshep]

@Rob99 out of curiosity what sort of Smart home installations are you looking at.
Are you looking at the DIY/ retrofit end of the scale e.g.. Alexa, Nest, Lightwave, Zwave.

Or you have the higher end Lutron, Loxone to the top end KNX type systems.

Alot of companys that do home automation are not electricians, they are mostly IT type people who win the jobs and then employ electricains to install the cables and build the panels.

These guys then come along at the end of the job plug in a laptop reap the glory.

 

[Rob99]

I'm going to be doing mainly Loxone systems.

I'm about to do my own home as part of an extension/refurb project and the amount of mains wiring involved is relatively small and I could easily do it myself other than the fact I'm not "qualified".

Operating as a new business I don't think it will be that easy or cost effective yet to sub-contract the wiring out to a sparks and unless I'm able to provide them with a long term opportunity I'll just be like any other customer to them.

Bottom line is that I just wanted some pointers as to what qualifications I needed in order to carry out the limited electrical works required rather than be left to the mercy of the "training" providers.

An earlier reply from Nobbin advised steering clear of "domestic electrical installer" courses but ironically is that not the type of work I am looking to be doing!

 

[AJshep]

I've had experience with Loxone, I've Installed 4 Loxone systems from scratch as well as built panels etc.

I'm starting out on my own in 2 weeks and I rang Loxone to book training to be a Loxone partner.
They told me that to be a partner you now need to buy a Demo case for around £750 do their training ( approx £550 I think) and then maybe show some qualifications or be vetted??

Last year to be a Partner you only had to do the training course, my old boss was a partner and that's all he did !!

From Loxone change of heart I can only assume that they have had alot of newly qualified partners taking jobs on and basically messing up.
With all due respect Rob I have had 20 years on-site experience,this includes quite a few commercial boiler rooms where ive had to come up with solutions (on the spot) to restore heating and hot water by using various type's of relays and contactors to bypass old rusty handbuilt panels that have failed.
The first time I did Loxone I had to sit down and really think about it !!
Anyway Loxone looks easy, (a bit like electrics) and the fundamentals are pretty simple.
When you have a combination of at least 50t&e and cat cables all dropping down at your panel you may feel different.
To get a nice neat panel comply with the BS7671 in these situation can be a challenge in itself, as we have a few factors to consider.

It takes me a good day (at least to pre-order build my panel's) and at least that to second fix one !!
If someone doesn't know the BS7671 how would you they able to do it ?

Loxone have a good marketing team, and there is a market for it, I've got a possible install lined up ! But im not a fan of direction they are heading, in the last few years they shut their forum, online tutorial,information, and for the price they want now I'm seriously considering just learning the KNX systems, its still a bit more but at least you know where you are with them.

Anyway you asked what qualifications you need.
You need to be competent..

If you do Loxone training ( and pay for a Demo case) then I suppose that makes you competent in that aspect ££££££

To do electrics you also need to be competent..
To me that would involve becoming an electrican through the proper channels.
Or join a scheme ££££££

Just be aware, if it all goes wrong and there's a fire because you put the wrong voltage down the wrong relay or you undersized a transformer then your on your own

 

[MDJ]

Am currently extending house and will be installing a smart home system throughout. My builder's sparks will be doing whatever is required to comply with regs etc.
I'm also intending to operate the smart home installation stuff as a bit of a future career change/semi retirement business hopefully later this year but I have been trying to work out from all the info out there what I might need to get qualified and/or certified to be able to do my own smart home electrical works in the future. The training providers seem particularly confusing!!
I know I could use a qualified sparks for every installation but I don't want to have to rely on someone else, especially as it will only be ad-hoc work and I know I couldn't expect them to fit in with me when I needed them.
Thanks all

Did you forget to ask a question? I see your story but no question.