RCD omission in a commercial setting.

[Edders]

Hi all,

I have been asked to install 2 x 32amp 3 phase sockets, one is to be used to plug in a forklift charger, the other one they are not yet sure but want one available for the future. What are people's thoughts on the omission of RCD's in what circumstance would a risk assessment negate the need for an RCD protected socket ? Is it only if the outlet is to used by an electrically skilled person?

Thanks,

 

[westward10]

If I were fitting socket outlets for the purpose you are suggesting then they would incorporate an rcd. I wouldn't even contemplate omitting them.

 

[freddo]

The cost of RCD add on modules for 3ph stuff is usually very high,, as well as taking up lots of extra ways in the db, so we mostly fit 3 phase switch interlocked sockets that have a built in RCD.

 

[pc1966]

Personally I would only be happy to omit RCD for technical reasons, such as the nature of the load and usage means RCD nuisance trips are likely and/or have serious impact on safety or business continuity.

As @freddo says the socket/RCD outlets are probably the easiest and most cost-effective solution as 3-phase RCBO are costly, not always available, and/or take a lot of space in the DB as a MCB add-on unit.

Also may places keep the DB locked for good reasons, at least with the RCD at the socket if it does trip it is easy for the operator to reset it.

 

[freddo]

at least with the RCD at the socket if it does trip it is easy for the operator to reset it.

With the rcd easily accessible it might get routinely tested by the user. (But probably not!)

 

[Edders]

Thanks everyone for your input, exactly the help i needed. Will fit the interlocked ones with RCD incorporated. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Lister1987]

I'm going to throw this on here; BS 7288 RCD sockets can not be used for additional protection, I imagine the Ceeform variants will have the same caveat.

 

[loz2754]

I'm going to throw this on here; BS 7288 RCD sockets can not be used for additional protection, I imagine the Ceeform variants will have the same caveat.

You may have a point. Now stand well back please and wait for the torrent of comments....

 

[westward10]

I'm going to throw this on here; BS 7288 RCD sockets can not be used for additional protection, I imagine the Ceeform variants will have the same caveat.

The incorporated rcd on a three phase socket wil be to EN61008.

 

[MJPD29]

Hi all,

I have been asked to install 2 x 32amp 3 phase sockets, one is to be used to plug in a forklift charger, the other one they are not yet sure but want one available for the future. What are people's thoughts on the omission of RCD's in what circumstance would a risk assessment negate the need for an RCD protected socket ? Is it only if the outlet is to used by an electrically skilled person?

Thanks,

Why do you feel you need to omit the RCD?

 

[richy3333]

The cost of RCD add on modules for 3ph stuff is usually very high,, as well as taking up lots of extra ways in the db, so we mostly fit 3 phase switch interlocked sockets that have a built in RCD.

Just had a quote for Hager ones and they are £165 ?

 

[pc1966]

Just had a quote for Hager ones and they are £165 ?

I ended up using MCB in the DB and putting some 3-phase RCD, and double-pole single phase RCD, in an additional DIN enclosure as better/cheaper than some of the RCBO options I was quoted. I also needed the DIN rail box for other stuff so the cost & time to put it in was only different by going 4-row instead of 2-row.

 

[Edders]

Why do you feel you need to omit the RCD?

I was just wanting to get other electricians perspective on it. They weren't required previously so I wondered in what circumstances other sparks omit them and why.

 

[MJPD29]

I ended up using MCB in the DB and putting some 3-phase RCD, and double-pole single phase RCD, in an additional DIN enclosure as better/cheaper than some of the RCBO options I was quoted. I also needed the DIN rail box for other stuff so the cost & time to put it in was only different by going 4-row instead of 2-row.

I find myself doing this instead of the RCBOs as well. Some of the prices are just ridiculous