Rogue Landlord Encounters

[KevinH]

Has anyone had encounters with rogue landlords?
I will tell my short story (and keep it as short as possible)

I had a call a few weeks back from a landlord to sort out an issue with an immersion heater following an "incident".

It seemed an emergency so I arrived that afternoon and the tenant, a middle aged Eastern European lady, let me in and explained (as best she could) that the landlord had fitted a plugtop to the immersion heater on the day she moved in to give hot water.

When I looked in the airing cupboard, I found an unrecognisable big black blob of melted mess that used to be a plug and socket where the 20A DP should have been. (Wanted to attached a pic, but it says the file is too large). After having a quick scan around the property, I noticed the tell tale signs of a rogue landlord. A pendant hanging from the ceiling supported by the cables, a cracked socket, no smoke alarms, and my favourite, a 3036 Re Wirable fuseboard. Not an RCD in sight!

I got straight on the phone to the landlord and explained the situation, of what had to be done, and completely unfazed, his reply was "can you just get the hot water back on and I will pay you cash", to which I replied "I can't do it today, I will have to return tomorrow".......

Ok, so I lied! I never had any intention of returning, as I have come across these type of landlords before who cut corners, totally ignore the safety of tenants and risk of a fire, and of course expect everything done for pennies...often not paying at all. I have not got the time of day for them!

Suffice to say that I informed Electrical Safety Roundtable, politely advised the tenant to find another landlord, blocked his number from my phone and walked away.

Should I feel guilty for leaving the lady with no hot water? How are these landlords getting away with it?

 

[pirate]

Echoing what others have said about this being a two-way street, years ago I had the contract on several postcode areas for a large lettings agent to do all their serviced work. The number of times I’d get called out for the simplest of things that were well within the capabilities and responsibilities of the tenants to resolve was unreal - replacing PP3’s in smoke alarms was such a common thing I kept bulk stock of them in the van. So the LL ends up with a £100 bill for the 30secs to change a £2 battery that requires no skills whatsoever!! The attitude of the tenant was literally ‘screw them, don’t care’.

However, this country has a major problem with housing stock and that has to be realised - it used to be the case that you finished studies/training, got a job, saved up and bought a house. But the gap between income, mortgage ratios and house prices just makes that impossible for so many. Basic maths says a couple each earning £30k gives a combined income of £60, for a four times mortgage (if they can get one….) makes £240k. Which is significantly short of a majority of house prices in a lot of areas. So instead they’re forced to rent a place for £1k+ on which the LL has mortgage repayments of £500 - it’s an ever decreasing circle for the tenant. That’s simplistic, I know, but neatly sums up the problem.

Some good points there, for sure. However the rental market is going through considerable upheaval with many private sector landlords leaving the sector due to numerous legislative changes, thus the stock of available houses is dwindling. It's fine for the person who inherits a flat and sticks it on AirBnB, collects the cash and lives a happy life. Not so good when the proper landlord has to get through registration, electrical and gas safety, fire and smoke alarms, ISITEE, legionella risk assessment and of course there isn't the same mortgage relief as previously and there is the extra stamp duty too. etc. Many do, of course, but these hurdles are seen as burdensome and expensive for many rogues, so they just don't bother.
It's a huge debate, but I'm just going to --- that AirBnB and their like have skewed and screwed the rental market not just in the UK but in other countries too, and I can't see things getting any better.

 

[LukeD]

Then what you’ll find is that the LL has a case simply to withhold the deposit! I get that this is an emotive subject but you really need to stick to your field of expertise - we all do in everything - otherwise something will come unstuck.

Thats not even protected ...again...stay on the same page . The landlord is going to ROYALLY screwed . And deserves to be .

 

[Rockingit]

Thats not even protected ...again...stay on the same page . The landlord is going to ROYALLY screwed . And deserves to be .

Luke, slightly combative reply here? A) This is new information and B) still doesn’t really change the narrative - I’d suggest that the only advice you should be giving is simply to get advice, otherwise you’re putting yourself in the firing line at the same time as acting as judge and jury based on armchair warrior law. Which isn’t to say that the whole situation doesn’t sound like it stinks from top to toe.

 

[davesparks]

Read it again...they are leaving in October .What could a landlord do ? 2 months notice , then 3-5 months .Thats if its all legal

He can start legal action which can result in them being prevented from leaving the country.

He really would not want to be going near a court !! He cheated and put their safety at risk.

That is a seperate issue, non-payment of rent is an issue that the landlord can take action against the tenant for.
Safety failings are seperate issue that the tenant can take action against the landlord for.

He deserves to lose the rent .

That's not your decision to make.

And should be reported on the day they leave .he needs sorting out

Anything which needs to be reported should be done in a timely manner. Deliberately waiting until the day they leave will again harm the tenants case in this matter.

 

[davesparks]

Thats not even protected ...again...stay on the same page . The landlord is going to ROYALLY screwed . And deserves to be .

There is a clear cut procedure in place for dealing with an unprotected deposit, the tenant simply needs to follow due process and can be awarded up to 3 months rent (possibly more).

Of course if they going in to this with your aggressive and combative attitude it will again harm their case and help the landlord to fight back.

 

[LukeD]

There is a clear cut procedure in place for dealing with an unprotected deposit, the tenant simply needs to follow due process and can be awarded up to 3 months rent (possibly more).

Of course if they going in to this with your aggressive and combative attitude it will again harm their case and help the landlord to fight back.

They walk away with more than £10k.... he expects this as rent from now till they leave . His hard luck . Game set and match . And he can go and get the money from them if he wants ..trouble is where they are going , he wont be coming back in one piece !! And no Dave,... they can leave the country any time .The law is very different when it comes to civil matters

 

[davesparks]

I have never had a complaint from a tenant.

Of course not, tenants don't complain because we know that complaints = eviction.

 

[littlespark]

Of course not, tenants don't complain because we know that complaints = eviction.

Not always.

A good landlord will listen to tenants, or not have complaints in the first place


We’re going round in circles, with half of us saying landlords are evil, and the other half…. Who have real life experience of being a landlord, saying otherwise…..

And refusing to pay rent because something hasn’t been done is the the same misled mentality of turning up with a couple of pals and baseball bats at the door of a customer who hasn’t paid you.
There are official ways to do things, that doesn’t involve breaking the law yourself.

 

[LukeD]

Not always.

A good landlord will listen to tenants, or not have complaints in the first place


We’re going round in circles, with half of us saying landlords are evil, and the other half…. Who have real life experience of being a landlord, saying otherwise…..

And refusing to pay rent because something hasn’t been done is the the same misled mentality of turning up with a couple of pals and baseball bats at the door of a customer who hasn’t paid you.
There are official ways to do things, that doesn’t involve breaking the law yourself.

And those methods take time and money .Life is too short .Sometimes you just have to play dirty .Especially when there is zero they can do abou it . This country is a mess due to the last 25 years housing crisis . Greed and lack of concern from councils

 

[littlespark]

All landlords….. All councils?

I’m not going to ask what you think of all traffic wardens, all MPs or all tv and radio presenters of the 1980’s

 

[DPG]

There have been some wild sweeping comments on this thread.

With the state of some EICRs recently some people might say all electricians are cowboys. I'm sure you wouldnt agree with that though.

It's not good getting angry and letting emotion win over sense.

For disclosure, I have been a landlord for around 15 years. My tennants have never had any issue that haven't been sorted promptly. On the other hand I had one lot of bad tennants to deal with.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Landlords are people as well, they just want paying for a service they provide, they have invested in a property and offered it to others to live in, if you truly believe your LL is a rouge, move.

 

[James]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

 

[LukeD]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

And it will be getting worse ..... Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire .

 

[davesparks]

Its Often not an easy decision to make.
For instance, I have a family member who is renting a house for him, his wife and 2 children (one of which is seriously special needs)

The state of the house is poor but not terrible
they have been trying for weeks to get a faulty tap fixed but no assistance so far, constantly leaking onto the counter then onto the floor where they are mopping it up regularly.

the electrics are a mess, whole house is on a single 30mA rcd that has been bypassed by 2 loops of cable from intake to output.

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is a genuine fault but my "expert visual analysis" leads me to suspect a fault with the house wiring.

If I were to write up an EICR for the property it would be marked as UNSATISFACTORY.
they have no recent gas cert, no electrical cert, however the the landlord has made it clear that any troubles with the legal side of things will lead to the house being sold.
they cant afford to move so are therefore Fooked or other word that sounds a little like it.

Its not easy for people renting, some landlords are just not doing what is required of them.
I understand that some landlords are also having trouble with tenants so its not all one way, a proper legal structure that regulates landlords and tenants would possibly be a step forward but all the bad ones would avoid registering.

Have they/you spoken to shelter about this?

They may be able to offer some help and advice.

If they are within the fixed term of their tenancy then it may be that any sale of the house just transfers the tenancy to a new landlord and doesn't result in their having to move.
There's a lot of if's but's and maybe's to it all so proper advice is needed.

 

[James]

the only advice given to them is that they should take the landlord to task with it, however they wont do anything until the tenant has made all reasonable attempts to sort it.
if they made attempts to sort it, they would be homeless.

the charity's and the advice from the council is both the same,
if you are homeless, We will house you in a B and B until a permanent solution is found.

however, how would you like to be causing a stink that makes you homeless on the promise that you will be sheltered in a hotel room until suitable accommodation is found when you have been on the waiting list for suitable accommodation for 9 years and nothing has been found?

Its easy to provide advice but tough to receive and act on it.

not knocking the good advice given but pointing out the flaws in the "system"

p.s. I have a plan to help them but need to spend another couple of years saving the capital to do it.

 

[brianmoooore]

Obviously as I am not within a part P scheme, i have not disconnected the loops to see if the rcd is faulty or if there is .....

No requirement to be a member of a scam to test the installation, or produce an EICR. Scam membership only needed if you replace the whole CU.

 

[davesparks]

the charity's and the advice from the council is both the same,
if you are homeless, We will house you in a B and B until a permanent solution is found.

I hadn't realised shelter would be quite as helpless as the council.

I didn't suggest speaking council as I'm well aware of how little they can actually do.

You are probably already aware, but the council will only put them into emergency housing if they are actually evicted with the whole court order + bailiffs circus.
If they leave before proper eviction occurs then they would be deemed as 'voluntarily homeless' and therfore not eligible for emergency housing from the council.

however, how would you like to be causing a stink that makes you homeless on the promise that you will be sheltered in a hotel room until suitable accommodation is found when you have been on the waiting list for suitable accommodation for 9 years and nothing has been found?

I wouldnt, and they do have my sympathy.
I do realise how lucky I am that the flat I rent is habitable and isn't old enough to have deteriorated much.
The only repair I've had to do is to the kitchen sink waste after it finally failed when the landlord ignored the cracks in it for 6 months.

p.s. I have a plan to help them but need to spend another couple of years saving the capital to do it.

That's brilliant to hear, the world needs more people like you!

 

[Mike Johnson]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

 

[James]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

I get what you’re saying,
however, every penny I spend fixing his landlords property is a penny lost towards helping them get there own home.

 

[LukeD]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

And thats the issue in the Uk it seems .landlords seem to think they hold the cards and everyone is there to just pay the rent or get removed . As long as people dont fight for or demand their rights etc .Its going to get worse .

 

[Mike Johnson]

And tenants seem to think they can call the landlord just because a screw has come loose on a door, I know who I think has a loose screw.

 

[DPG]

And thats the issue in the Uk it seems .landlords seem to think they hold the cards and everyone is there to just pay the rent or get removed . As long as people dont fight for or demand their rights etc .Its going to get worse .

And again, you are making sweeping statements about groups of people.

 

[DPG]

I heard a landlord once who got so fed up with the renters so what he did was, he shoved himself up a chimney

Ah the old 'climb up the chimney trick'.

 

[LukeD]

And again, you are making sweeping statements about groups of people.

yes..... And from my experiences in London I am right . many many landlords are doing all they can to evade their responsibilities and to hold tenants at ransom . And MANY been from certain parts of society that seem to naturally evade anything legal ! Also landlords Borrowing against the income and then wanting the tenant to pay those costs as well . The whole rental market needs better control . Its a joke at the moment .

 

[littlespark]

You started off with UK landlords.... then London.... Any particular area? Street?

I'm with DPG... Its not all landlords

 

[LukeD]

You started off with UK landlords.... then London.... Any particular area? Street?

I'm with DPG... Its not all landlords

Not all ...And you know that .......! But I am seeing and hearing a lot more about bad landlords. It seems clever ones have sold their properties and moved their money into something a little less easier to deal with .Now the laws and tax thing is making life harder for them . And those that are left,many seem to be getting greedier by the day . And its all down to lack of control and councils not been too worried . Sure you get feckless tenants that think a light bulb has to be changed or they can really start changing decor etc etc . But combine in useless management agencies who hire in the lowest of the lowest to carry out repairs . Its all a race to the bottom in many cases . Landlords should also be vetted and have to supply references from previous tenants .Also a tenant should be able to see if the landlord is having any issues paying the mortgage etc . Why should all the "due diligence " be a one way street .Ive known many tenants have banks turning up etc to say they now own the property (Which tends to work out fine ) as the landlord over cooked their spendings and responsibility . But imagine after 8 months you find the landlord has taken the rent and not paid the mortgage and you might be facing issues .

 

[Mike Johnson]

Not all ...And you know that .......! But I am seeing and hearing a lot more about bad landlords. It seems clever ones have sold their properties and moved their money into something a little less easier to deal with .

Now that I don't understand.]

I am hearing more and more about rouge tenants taking advantage of decent landlords and the rules laid down by local authorities, using racist and asylum excuse's.

This seems to be a very a-motive subject for @LukeD is this personal experience or all second hand knowledge?

 

[LukeD]

Now that I don't understand.]

I am hearing more and more about rouge tenants taking advantage of decent landlords and the rules laid down by local authorities, using racist and asylum excuse's.

This seems to be a very a-motive subject for @LukeD is this personal experience or all second hand knowledge?

Are the experiences you mention personal or all second hand knowledge ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

A leaking top, good grief, get off your butt and do something about it your self.

And tenants seem to think they can call the landlord just because a screw has come loose on a door, I know who I think has a loose screw.

Presumably you think you have a right to receive 100% of the rent, while expecting your tenants to carry out your maintenance for you?