Discuss running a house from car batteries for the electrical idiot in the The Welcome Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

ellie

-
Reaction score
6
i live in the middle of nowhere and sometimes have no electricity. instead of being at the mercy of EDF i have decided to run a 12v lighting system alongside the 230v mains system. to test if a bulb would light from a battery i wired a 12v halogen car bulb to a battery with a switch. i kept it simple. red wire from red terminal of battery to switch, from switch to bulb. black wire from bulb back to black terminal. it worked. for all of 5 minutes. then the bulb blew. what did i do wrong? i am hoping to also run my modem and laptop from batteries so advice on this would be helpful too please. :)
 
The battery might have been under or over voltage for the bulb which prematurely caused it to fail.

It could also have been an AC bulb being fed on a DC supply
 
Or your halogen lamp (bulb) may of been contaminated with sticky fingers . They do not like that.
If you continue with your experiment , use LED lamps . Halogen lamps will just eat your power.
Caravan sales outlets will give you an idea of the type of lamps that are available, but don't buy them from them . They are usually well marked up. Go to the well known online market place. :)
 
I would suggest that if you want a DC system you might do worse than have a look here:
Display Lighting Systems UK | Cabinet Lighting | Display Lights | Retail Display Lighting - https://www.display-lighting.com/
My wife occasionally runs a display at certain craft fairs and often the electricity supply isn't close enough. What we bought was a set of 4 lights from these folk, along with the 230V plug-in transformer, which we use when there is a mains supply handy. If there isn't we use the adaptor that lets you run the lights from a battery.
These folks do sell 12v batteries, and there is a table on the site giving you details, size, output and so on, so you can calculate how long the battery will last etc. However, we simply used a 12v golf trolley battery and the 4 lights ran all day, and most of the night. Obviously, we had the battery and charger, but the two together will cost a lot less thgan one of those mega-expensive ones on that website, and for ocasional use a standard, lead-acid type will be fine.
 
And if you are in a sunny part of France , solar panels may be a consideration to keep your batteries topped up.
You could even create a battery bank and run some power sockets via an inverter.
To my mind that is when solar power comes into it's own.
 
Agreed, 123, however if for ocasional use maybe the generator and dedicated circuit/changeover switch might be on the expensive side? Plus you need to store fuel for the genny, and put up with the noise and the other inconvenience...some generators can be difficult beggars to start...and have to be housed somewhere.

Ruston, I do like your view on this, but again the initial expense might not be justified...it's up to the OP to rule on that point.
 
On the cost front, these were about £200 for the set, ifrc

4 x S124 Clamp Spots, 5W LED Lamps & Battery KIT - Display Lighting Ltd - https://www.display-lighting.com/led-battery-powered-lighting/s124-battery-led-clamp-spots/dkit4xs124-300-dc.html

and can be clamped to tables, shelves screens etc.
We got at least 10 hours running from the golf trolley battery, which is a standard, non-lithium 22ah 12 volt thingy, which cost less than £50
Lucas 22Ah Golf Battery LSLC22-12G - Lucas Golf Batteries - https://www.tayna.co.uk/golf-batteries/lucas/lslc22-12g/
and is half the price of the Motocaddy branded equivalent that for me lasts only one season. I don't mind paying £50/year, but twice that is just silly...especially as my golf is rubbish!
Going off-topic here, sorry...
 
I guess if you had a nice big car battery anyway, and a charger for it, then you would get a couple of days of light from it using similar LED lamps. At 5W output they give a good light too. I know that you can buy a car battery with 95ah for under £100 these days, so that's 4x the output of the golf trolley one, at the expense of size and weight obviously. As usual, the market dictates the price, and for golfers size and weight are important (not just of the golfers, but their batteries too!) thus these mini-sized ones are expensive...and the market is small compared to cars...however, the average car battery will outlast the golf ones by years, and as the OP has a car one, maybe that's the simplest and cheapest solution...car battery, some nice LED 12v lamps and job done...
Not going to run too many loads off an inverter, but small appliances would be fine, I think, so worth investing in one of those as well.
 
No, if you know your 12v electrics, there is zero fire risk if, and only if, you do your homework, so on this occasion I beg to differ Vortigern.
I was born and bred on these 12v things, and 24v too, and there is no way you can cause death by stupidity unless you add total ignorance too!
It is a different world, and it has it's detractors, but the fact remains...some install sub-stations, some do mini-electrics, but each has its idiosyncracies, and each its specialists!
So..."electricals/idiots"? well probably not...but I bow to your experience...
 
Have you ever tried putting a spanner over the terminals of a car battery? But yes on the surface of it what could possibly go wrong. Oh and by the way I would not recommend bowing to my experience, like anyone else here there are always things to learn from each other.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, can't say I have lol. Seen a few go up though.
I don't think the OP will be commissioning this herself though. I think she is just looking for views.
 
as with any electrical system the safety key is using the proper sized over current device (fuse or circuit breaker/interrupter)
the stupid factor comes in when untrained people wont investigate a nuisance failure and just install a larger fuse. (seen too many production twits do that)
 
I agree . I repaired a burned out harness on a Mini Bus taxi recently because the 'technician' kept replacing the fuses with the next size up.
The harness was like a charred branch.
They were lucky they did not lose the vehicle.
 
Fellow posters, we are responding to the OP who wants to run a few lamps from a car battery...there are in-line fuses to protect the setup.
I suspect she will not put a spanner in the works!
If we were talking about an automatic start when the mains goes off, with a full generator backup, I would simply leave it to those with that particular specialist knowledge...and thus I would have nothing to contribute.
However, I am the first to agree that many fires are caused by inappropriate measures on what many think are "safe" 12V applications.
In my early years of tinkering with such systems, in the marine environment, we often had multi-fuel situations...the engine would run on diesel, the outboards on petrol, the heating on parafin, and the cooker on gas, all such fuels being stored on board in varying quantities. A dodgy 12 or 24V installation could impact on any of the other fuels, all being confined in a small space...and no AA or RAC to come to the rescue.
Fire was always the risk, not electrocution...whereas in a 240V situation there is always the risk of both.
Therefore, I would rather see someone attempt a 12v installation than a 230V one...
and having recently been involved in damage assessment on a UPS system in an office, it was obvious that the system was ideally specified for the expected load, electrically speaking, but no-one had bothered about the physical loading of the building, so the shelves hosting the UPS collapsed under the weight...
horses for courses methinks...
 
BTW, we always tested the calor cylinder to regulator joint with a match!
Oh, happy days!
DO NOT DO THIS FOLKS!
(It's fine actually, as long as you ventilate the area properly...
50 years on and I'm still here...and the copper junctions just had an olive and a smear of calor-tite and that was that...of course we ran a risk assessment every time we changed a cylinder!)
 
Electrical, Idiots, mmmm do they really go together well??? Risk of fire jumps to mind.

Never mind Fires from short circuits ,
Wafting away hydrogen ,present after charging .
... is something you don't want to trap accidentally...
(not having a wind blowing under you bonet to help).
Witnessed arc near batteries , freshly charged .
a) Blew top off
b) Blew end out .... May be different with calcium ones
.. but I'm not a car battery expert ..
 
Fair point, but in the normal situation you don't get fizzing gases coming off car batteries on charge. For sure, the golf trolley type, like the car type, are fully sealed, and chargeable indoors with gay abandon (oh...did I say that?)
On the other hand, the older style batteries such as I was used to in the marine environment were not sealed, and often fizzzed under charging conditions...and we had to top them up with distilled water...oh, happy days:)
 
Car batteries are not ideal for deep cycling and leisure batteries would be a better choice.
Nearly all car batteries are sealed these days, and not all are lead acid.
The concerns are justified ,and the OP has already realized that things go wrong ,and has come here for advice and comments.
I fully expect that she will take it in and get a competent person to design her project.
 
there is a very good chance my fingers were not clean. lol. also i had been holding it in my hand whilst i was searching for a bit of wire
 
And if you are in a sunny part of France , solar panels may be a consideration to keep your batteries topped up.
You could even create a battery bank and run some power sockets via an inverter.
To my mind that is when solar power comes into it's own.

i agree. i use solar panels for my battery powered electric fencing. they work so well i rarely have to top them up from mains power
 
A generator might be a better idea, with changeover switch and appliance inlet, although may be different rules for this in France.

ha ha! just bought one! noisy bugger but after rigging up a longer exhaust pipe from an old metal rake handle and jubilee clip then placing it on a folded up tractor inner tube it runs much more quietly
 
Agreed, 123, however if for ocasional use maybe the generator and dedicated circuit/changeover switch might be on the expensive side? Plus you need to store fuel for the genny, and put up with the noise and the other inconvenience...some generators can be difficult beggars to start...and have to be housed somewhere.

Ruston, I do like your view on this, but again the initial expense might not be justified...it's up to the OP to rule on that point.

managed to find a genny for 150 euros. the 2400w is sufficient to run most of the house. i have managed to solve the noise issue but i still prefer the battery idea for now. especially with solar panels.
 
On the cost front, these were about £200 for the set, ifrc

4 x S124 Clamp Spots, 5W LED Lamps & Battery KIT - Display Lighting Ltd - https://www.display-lighting.com/led-battery-powered-lighting/s124-battery-led-clamp-spots/dkit4xs124-300-dc.html

and can be clamped to tables, shelves screens etc.
We got at least 10 hours running from the golf trolley battery, which is a standard, non-lithium 22ah 12 volt thingy, which cost less than £50
Lucas 22Ah Golf Battery LSLC22-12G - Lucas Golf Batteries - https://www.tayna.co.uk/golf-batteries/lucas/lslc22-12g/
and is half the price of the Motocaddy branded equivalent that for me lasts only one season. I don't mind paying £50/year, but twice that is just silly...especially as my golf is rubbish!
Going off-topic here, sorry...

thank you for the links. i have lots of old batteries that although are now no good to run a car still have enough ooomph left to power electric fencing. i was kind of hoping if they could power that they could manage a laptop and some lights. ever the optimist. lol however, i do like the idea of LED lamps
 
No, if you know your 12v electrics, there is zero fire risk if, and only if, you do your homework, so on this occasion I beg to differ Vortigern.
I was born and bred on these 12v things, and 24v too, and there is no way you can cause death by stupidity unless you add total ignorance too!
It is a different world, and it has it's detractors, but the fact remains...some install sub-stations, some do mini-electrics, but each has its idiosyncracies, and each its specialists!
So..."electricals/idiots"? well probably not...but I bow to your experience...

phew! momentary panic over. lol.
 
No, if you know your 12v electrics, there is zero fire risk if, and only if, you do your homework, so on this occasion I beg to differ Vortigern.
I was born and bred on these 12v things, and 24v too, and there is no way you can cause death by stupidity unless you add total ignorance too!
It is a different world, and it has it's detractors, but the fact remains...some install sub-stations, some do mini-electrics, but each has its idiosyncracies, and each its specialists!
So..."electricals/idiots"? well probably not...but I bow to your experience...

phew! momentary panic over. lol.
No, can't say I have lol. Seen a few go up though.
I don't think the OP will be commissioning this herself though. I think she is just looking for views.

um... i will be doing it myself. i did all my house wiring, plumbing, windows, flooring (tiled and wooden) myself. as well as digging a soak-away cesspit, digging a swimming pool and many other things. with each job i took on i had no idea of what i was doing so i asked everyone i knew and many i did not for their advice. the first time i plumbed in the bathroom (i changed my mind 3 times on which room i wanted it in) i had my phone clamped to my ear with my dad on the other end talking me through what to do. ok, so i am crap at soldering joints to i bought compression joints instead. et voila! a higgedly-piggedly, oddly routed water system that works and does not leak. lol luckily i have lots of time and am not too bothered if i make mistakes. as long as they don't kill me. OH! i did nearly die once. i sawed through a 3-phase cable that was supposed to have been disconnected years before i bought the house. my saw now has 3 inches of teeth missing. and i lost a potentially free source of electricity. i am so glad i had wellies on and gardening gloves
 
Have you ever tried putting a spanner over the terminals of a car battery? But yes on the surface of it what could possibly go wrong. Oh and by the way I would not recommend bowing to my experience, like anyone else here there are always things to learn from each other.

no. but now i am ... brb
 
I still have a very basic back-up system at home, it's something I installed a few years ago when we were have power outages of 3-4 hour duration on alternate days.

Firstly forget halogen lighting of any kind, they're a fire hazard, they're fillament so they're unreliable and they're extremely innefficient. Use LED lights.

Secondly forget car batteries or any normal lead acid batteries, they're not designed to be discharged by more than 20%, discharging them more than that destroys them in no time (<a month) You have to use deep cycle lead acid batteries, yes they're more expensive but they should last years rather than days.

Because we were getting the power back on every day solar wasn't worth the extra expense. The cheapest route for me was a small, cheap 5kVA inverter that was plugged into the normal supply and 4x lead acid 110Ah deep cycle batteries to provide back-up power. .

The inverter ran all the important items in the house such as 3x PC's, 1x server, ADSL router, cordless telephones, TV, satelite decoder, Hi-Fi system, as well as occasional use of microwave, kettle and coffee machine. On batteries it would run for around 5 hours with everything on and about 7 hours if I shut things down when I wasn't using them.

I also installed some 12vDC LED lighting around the house, it was mostly cheap 10 watt floodlights and some adhesive tape type lights. Obviously the lights ran directly off the batteries, not from the inverter.
 
BTW, we always tested the calor cylinder to regulator joint with a match!
Oh, happy days!
DO NOT DO THIS FOLKS!
(It's fine actually, as long as you ventilate the area properly...
50 years on and I'm still here...and the copper junctions just had an olive and a smear of calor-tite and that was that...of course we ran a risk assessment every time we changed a cylinder!)

a friend of mine who used to work for the gas board told me that is exactly what he used to do. i was horrified and wondering if he was pulling my leg all at the same time.
 
As mentioned it is worth putting a main fuse at the batteries and it's also worth fusing any 12vdc circuits you run. Without fuses the risk of fire is very high.

I'll add a few photos of my setup but I'll warn you in advance it isn't going to win any awards...
 
Why can't the OP just use mains electric,and just do what the French do,when something fails,and they are not happy with it...block the roads and have a picnic ;)

i have mains electric. for the most part. but power cuts are a fairly regular occurrence. especially in the winter when the wind blows trees down. more than happy to have a picnic though.
 
I still have a very basic back-up system at home, it's something I installed a few years ago when we were have power outages of 3-4 hour duration on alternate days.

Firstly forget halogen lighting of any kind, they're a fire hazard, they're fillament so they're unreliable and they're extremely innefficient. Use LED lights.

Secondly forget car batteries or any normal lead acid batteries, they're not designed to be discharged by more than 20%, discharging them more than that destroys them in no time (<a month) You have to use deep cycle lead acid batteries, yes they're more expensive but they should last years rather than days.

Because we were getting the power back on every day solar wasn't worth the extra expense. The cheapest route for me was a small, cheap 5kVA inverter that was plugged into the normal supply and 4x lead acid 110Ah deep cycle batteries to provide back-up power. .

The inverter ran all the important items in the house such as 3x PC's, 1x server, ADSL router, cordless telephones, TV, satelite decoder, Hi-Fi system, as well as occasional use of microwave, kettle and coffee machine. On batteries it would run for around 5 hours with everything on and about 7 hours if I shut things down when I wasn't using them.

I also installed some 12vDC LED lighting around the house, it was mostly cheap 10 watt floodlights and some adhesive tape type lights. Obviously the lights ran directly off the batteries, not from the inverter.

thank you. i like this idea. do you have any advice about selecting an inverter please? or do i just chose one inside my price range?
 
thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my question. i have found all your replies to be most informative. i am so glad i found this forum. i hope you do not mind me popping in again when i have more questions. and i will.
 
I'm not sure what inverters are available in France, the one I used was an 'Axpert' but I've seen it rebranded under other names as well. It was pretty cheap as pure sine inverters go and it's been very reliable.

Here's the battery bank, you can see the main fuse at the top right and also one the lighting circuit fuses laying loose on the left if you look carefully

0.jpg


Here's the inverter (the silver box in the corner);

1.jpg
 
I ran the back-up power from the inverter on extension leads. Here's the lead that powers the coffee machine and above you can see one of the 12vDC 10 watt floodlights that's powered direct from the batteries.

6.jpg
 
This was another 12VDC floodlight that provides back-up lighting in my office, it was just a plain light so I added the pull switch.

View attachment 41451

As I said it's not going to win any awards but it served it's purpose when we had regular blackouts.

Wow. thank you for the pictures. that is really helpful. and those LEDs look brilliant (literally). Thanks Marvo. much appreciated.
 
You're welcome. I see you can buy 10 watt 12VDC floodlights on ebay for under five UK quid and the LED strip light is less than 10 quid per 5 meter length which is pretty cheap. I assume similar is available in France if you shop around so you should be able to buy back-up lights for the entire house for about 50 Euros.
 
Indeed Static, which is why I use the golf trolley batteries which are deep cycle, and likely to be virtually fully discharged every round, then charged up again for my next attempt at breaking 100...and that's just on the front nine!

They are also very compact, about 9" square, and 3" deep, so very portable. ( i believe they come in metric sizes too!)
 

Reply to running a house from car batteries for the electrical idiot in the The Welcome Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

I used 12v dc from a 13 plate car battery to power a 12v dianamo dc motor and brought in an alternator to change the battery using the rotation of...
Replies
7
Views
719
Hi Everyone, New to the forum but hoping I can find a little help with my restoration project... I am adding a secondary wiring "system" to my...
Replies
14
Views
991
I have halogen lights in my kitchen under the wall units, there are ten lights altogether bulbs are either 10 watt or 20 watt G4 bulbs ( not sure...
Replies
1
Views
768
Looking for counsel / guidance to replace an original Dayton On/off with speed control switch. I’ve checked with a couple local electrical supply...
Replies
5
Views
734
Hi - On our small vessel we have a 12v failry powerful motor to run the autopilot, where the power is supplied by the boat's battery bank. On an...
Replies
20
Views
2K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock